Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Florence]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

They do, which just goes to show there is a bandwidth problem that needs the ISPs to commit billions of pounds to replace the networks. Without some serious revenue to help them do it, it won't happen....

Enter Phorm, stage left....

No there is no need to use phorm and break privacy and customer trust.. The main issue is the fact like many they failed to invest in the networks and started to give higher and higher wages to the fat cats.... This will improve nothing in the structure of the internet since it will by nature destablise the structure of the internet and the integrity of the surfing.

Been through proxies for years they were a total waste of space and money it cost to run them.

[HamsterWheel]

stop rolling out unachievable speeds

So is the UK supposed to drop behind the rest of the world in web speeds ?

Some of the arguments against Phorm seem to miss the point that the internet is a commercial space that must be financed, not (unfortunately) a free resource.

[Digbert]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

They do, which just goes to show there is a bandwidth problem that needs the ISPs to commit billions of pounds to replace the networks. Without some serious revenue to help them do it, it won't happen....

Enter Phorm, stage left....

Analysts at Investec Securities said the Open Internet Exchange could generate £85 million, or $167 million in annual revenue for BT alone by 2009.

Hardly the billions to replace the network. BT have made no indication that they would invest the profits from Phorm/Webwise in providing faster or cheaper internet access.

[rryles]

The figures don't seem to add up though. The revenue that an ISP can expect from implementing phorm is a tiny proportion of what they get from subscriptions. They'd be better off just charging their customers a little more.

Personally I'm already paying a premium for my connection because I value the quality of service I get. I'm with Zen if you where wondering.

Edit: £85M / 4M Bt Retail customers = £21 per customer per year - that's less than £1.80 a month. This is based on an optimistic revenue estimate too.

[warescouse]

I feel this discussion currently is going around and around endlessly serving no useful purpose except to water down our good anti phorm comments and provoking unnecessary bad behaviour. It is as though we are stuck on a hamster wheel.

[tarka]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

So is the UK supposed to drop behind the rest of the world in web speeds ?

The rest of the world have been able to increase connection speeds without the use of the type of technology that is being proposed here.

[popper]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Oh well I can't do a video for YouTube because I can't find an app in Linux which will capture both audio and video at the same time from my webcam and I don't own a camcorder.

I can do audio only podcasts though I will have a crack at one over the next couple of days.

Alexander Hanff

thats odd what cam and what linux distro?

you should be able to simply use VLC (that being the easyest and probably the best option anyway), especially if you can find the right CLI/shell command to use to make it quick and easy for any *Nix.

iv had no luck finding the exact options for you, but heres a start.

i assume your cam is in the
http://www.exploits.org/v4l list.

http://www.videolan.org/doc/streamin...o/en/ch10.html
Software encoding cards

and rather than Stream to the network/web with VLC replace the right cli comands to save the file instead.

the keyword parts in red
"...


where:

• /dev/video is the device corresponding to your acquisition card or your webcam,
• norm=secam is name of the standard of the analogic signal (possible values are pal, secam, and ntsc) ,
• frequency=543250 is the frequency of the channel in kHz (Warning : for VLC < 0.6.1, Frequency is channel frequency in MHz multiplied by 16),
• size=640x480 is the size of the video you want (you can also put the standard size like subqcif (128x96), qsif (160x120), qcif (176x144), sif (320x240), cif (352x288) or vga (640x480)),
• channel=0 is the number of the channel (usually 0 is for tuner, 1 for composite and 2 for svideo),
• adev=/dev/dsp is the audio device,
• audio=1 is the number of the audio channel (usually 0 is for mono and 1 for stereo),
• vcodec=mp4v is the video format you want to encode in (mp4v is MPEG-4, mpgv is MPEG-1, and there is also h263, DIV1, DIV2, DIV3, I420, I422, I444, RV24, YUY2),
• acodec=mpga is the audio format you want to encode in (mpga is MPEG audio layer 2, a52 is A52 i.e. AC3 sound),
• vb=3000 is the video bitrate in Kbit/s
• ab=256 is the audio bitrate in Kbit/s
• venc=ffmpeg allows to set the encoder to use, where:
  • keyint=80 is the maximal amount of frames between two key frames
  • hurry-up allows the encoder to decrease the quality of the stream if the CPU can't keep up with the encoding rate
  • vt=800000 is the tolerance in kbit/s for the bitrate of the outputted video
• deinterlace tells VLC to deinterlace the video on the fly,
• 192.168.0.42 is either:
  • the IP address of the machine you want to unicast to;
  • or the DNS name the machine you want to unicast to;
  • or a multicast IP address.
• 12 is the value of the TTL (Time To Live) of your IP packets (which means that the stream will be able to cross 11 routers).
• ...
• "

not tryed this ,but im thinking something like this using VLC might be a very good thing for our purpose, both for the 30 second protests and perhaps even a laptop on the spot BT protest VLC video " the People speak Out" collection to be compiled into several video "Point OF view" comments for the NoDPI video collection.

http://blog.raphinou.com/2007/08/bui...h-vlc-ion.html

http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentati...encoding_cards

http://www.videolan.org/

[TheBruce1]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

They do, which just goes to show there is a bandwidth problem that needs the ISPs to commit billions of pounds to replace the networks. Without some serious revenue to help them do it, it won't happen....

Enter Phorm, stage left....

Wrong, if you spend unnecessary millions on ad-campaigns and not on your network,word of mouth advertising is the best form of advertising, the fact they giveaway cheap deals which they cannot support, the fact they oversubscribe their networks instead of investing in it, ISP companies such as Be* do invested in their network and are not oversubscribe, they do not need Phorm to pay for the bandwidth, good business practice is the way forward, not some spyware company like Phorm who piggy back on the backs of not so well run ISP.

If Phorm is so good, then start your own ISP, see how long you last..

[Florence]

What a price to pay for speed you can have speed but surrender your privacy no thanks I am happy with my 6meg ADSL line it is faster than I used to get at peak time on VM which I cancelled due to phorm.

[JohnnyWashngo]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

So is the UK supposed to drop behind the rest of the world in web speeds ?

Nope.

From my time in Japan I have to tell you that they have fibre optic to the door and no adverts inserted into their browser. How do they acheive fast speeds without pimping personal data? They invest in their telecommunications infrastructure and charge for it.

Trying to sell yoru customers surfing data on the 'we can fund faster internet intrastructure' ticket is a no go.

[Phormic Acid]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

They do, which just goes to show there is a bandwidth problem that needs the ISPs to commit billions of pounds to replace the networks.

Today, there may be. I’m sure, in ten years’ time, we’ll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. The introduction of large-scale video services is currently outpacing improvements in ISPs’ network hardware. The networks will catch up. The suggested income per subscriber per month isn’t that high – nowhere near enough to make much of a dent in new infrastructure costs. When the hardware has caught up, we’ll still be left with ISP-level behavioural targeting. Only, just as every other technology will have moved on, so will behavioural targeting. We won’t be stuck with Phorm, but son of Phorm – something far, far more intrusive than what’s initially planned and possibly even more intrusive than you’re currently able to imagine.

[tarka]

On a side note, BT have been sending out those mailshots again...

We’d like to thank you for being a loyal BT Broadband customer by offering you a permanent saving of £4 a month on your BT Total Broadband¹ – plus a little something more – your choice of a fantastic free thank you gift worth up to £49².

And the free gift?


Canon Pixma all-in-one photo printer – print, copy and scan the fast and easy way
or
Digital photo frame – watch a slideshow with a choice of effects or choose single or thumbnail views
or
Samsung 2GB MP3 player – listen to up to 1,000 music tracks on the move

and now the catch....

1) 12-month contract term applies. By accepting this promotion, you confirm you are the account holder or have the account holder’s permission to participate in this offer. £4 a month discount is available to BT Total Broadband Option 3 customers currently paying £26.99 a month. New price therefore £22.99 a month. Payment by Direct Debit required. Prices and offer correct at time of email send.

The ISP's complain that they can't afford to spend the money on upgrading infrastructure etc... then send round mailshots offering to cut £4 a month off the bill plus the free gift.

That is a loss to them of £48 a year plus the cost of the gift per customer... if I recall correctly (please correct me if I am wrong), from the loose calculations made earlier in this thread on the revenue they would get from Phorm, this 'offer' would wipe out any profit they would make on phorm?!

certifiable...

[icsys]

Originally Posted by tarka

On a side note, BT have been sending out those mailshots again...

We’d like to thank you for being a loyal BT Broadband customer by offering you a permanent saving of £4 a month on your BT Total Broadband¹ – plus a little something more – your choice of a fantastic free thank you gift worth up to £49².

And the free gift?


Canon Pixma all-in-one photo printer – print, copy and scan the fast and easy way
or
Digital photo frame – watch a slideshow with a choice of effects or choose single or thumbnail views
or
Samsung 2GB MP3 player – listen to up to 1,000 music tracks on the move

and now the catch....

1) 12-month contract term applies. By accepting this promotion, you confirm you are the account holder or have the account holder’s permission to participate in this offer. £4 a month discount is available to BT Total Broadband Option 3 customers currently paying £26.99 a month. New price therefore £22.99 a month. Payment by Direct Debit required. Prices and offer correct at time of email send.

12-month contract term applies
Check those terms and conditions for material changes!
A nice little sweetener to opt you into the webwise trial??

[Florence]

Thats another thing BT, VM and Talktalk alltie you into a 12 month contract my new ISP has monthly contracts I can move and return anytime I want...

[dav]

At what point, I wonder, would the advocates of Phorm say, "OK, that's a bit too far"?

For the sake of argument, let us assume that function creep does occur and that Webwise morphs into something that decides, based on your profile, not only the ads you see, but the content of the pages and also starts firing off targeted emails etc.

Where do you draw the line? Is it only acceptable in its current form, or are you willing to give it more access. When you get an email about a month before your childs birthday along the lines of, "Why not buy little Timmy one of those computer games he's interested in, particularly X or Y", is that the time you start to think it's gone a bit beyond its initial scope and what we were all promised?