Brexit - Page 36

**Hugh** · 24-03-2019, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

UKIP did enough to force a referendum, The BNP & UKIP which you would describe as far right outdid LibDems in many constituencies and in local elections did even better.

To discount this as an MP’s numbers game would be very foolish. Parliament and the establishment ignored this threat and feeling and what did we get? Brexit.

To ignore this shows you are as out if touch in your ivory tower as most of Westminster.

It’s Hilarious.

Westminster and the Establishment facilitated this fiasco by ignoring large swathes of the electorate that had valid concerns, concerns that were preyed upon by UKIP and the far right.

And now after the result how do they intend to adress those concerns? By ignoring the electorate. Stupid is as stupid does.

Nothing says someone is secure in their proposition as much as an ad hominem attack...

Pierre · 24-03-2019, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

There’s no basis to implement a referendum result nobody wants. Be that May’s deal, or no deal.

If anyone in the leave campaign genuinely thought public opinion hadn’t changed they’d be at the front of the queue saying it’s time for a second referendum. A referendum to end the meddling, based on the evidence available.

It’s telling that there’s no appetite for such a referendum.

I’d be happy to have another referendum based on the exact same question.

---------- Post added at 16:24 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

The only way we leave the European Union and it's if Leave wins a second referendum. It's the political reality and there is no way around it.

I still wouldn’t bet the farm.

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Nothing says someone is secure in their proposition as much as an ad hominem attack...

Yeah I must really come across as insecure. Jesus , you class that as an attack!? Some really sensitive souls on this forum.

It is a widely used phrase that implies the person it is directed at is out of touch, which is what your post previous certainly evidenced. It’s not an attack, get over yourself. Also it was not “ad hominem” I did not avoid the topic of the discussion or try to evade a reply to you. If you’re going to use clever words make sure you know what they mean.

**Mick** · 24-03-2019, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Except Parliament will not vote for it.

The only way we leave the European Union and it's if Leave wins a second referendum. It's the political reality and there is no way around it.

Yes there is. There isn’t a Parliamentary majority for a Second Referendum. Leave doesn’t need to win twice to get enacted.

jfman · 24-03-2019, 16:33

If you are relying on these MPs to allow Brexit then you are going to be disappointed.

**Mick** · 24-03-2019, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

If you are relying on these MPs to allow Brexit then you are going to be disappointed.

Brexit has already been allowed. Did you forget A50 has been invoked by said parliament ?

jfman · 24-03-2019, 16:44

On March 29th? April 12th? or another date?

You are relying on them to not reverse it. Or delay it in perpetuity. As I said prepare for disappointment. The first step was always enabling a delay and that has been achieved.

papa smurf · 24-03-2019, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone

That is because whoever advised her that this was the right strategy to use was quite clearly pretty clueless to put it bluntly as the British people are not as stupid as some would have you believe..

Oh i don't know did you not see that thicket of idiots in London yesterday.

mrmistoffelees · 24-03-2019, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Oh i don't know did you not see that thicket of idiots in London yesterday.

Nottingham area surely

**Damien** · 24-03-2019, 18:23

Robert Peston is saying the coup might be over as the main Tory leadership candidates don't want a caretaker and the other MPs don't want a leadership election yet.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1109804183643979777

denphone · 24-03-2019, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Oh i don't know did you not see that thicket of idiots in London yesterday.

No l was watching something else which was more suited to my palate.

1andrew1 · 24-03-2019, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Oh i don't know did you not see that thicket of idiots in London yesterday.

I don't think they've reached London yet.

---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

On March 29th? April 12th? or another date?

You are relying on them to not reverse it. Or delay it in perpetuity. As I said prepare for disappointment. The first step was always enabling a delay and that has been achieved.

Exactly. 75% of Parliament is against Brexit. I think it may happen but not on the terms that Rees-Mogg and chums have pretended are possible.

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

Great article here from former diplomat Robert Cooper. Including

Quote:

Britain triggered Article 50 without having a clue what we wanted or how we were going to get it. The European Commission, by contrast, knew exactly what it was doing: the diplomats in Brussels are masters of negotiation. After all, they have been doing it for years — for us, and for the rest of the EU. Notice that they take direction from their political masters at the start, consult them as they go along, and return to them at the end. The commission is dealing with sovereign states. Our government might consider doing the same with its sovereign parliament
Another lesson: the EU is bigger than Britain. If we leave without an agreement, that is a nuisance for the EU — about 10 per cent of their trade is with us. For us, they represent 49 per cent and no deal risks being a catastrophe. The idea that this is an important bargaining chip is ridiculous. One day — we cannot ignore our neighbours forever — we will be back at the table, helpless on our side, furious on theirs.
Why is the EU being so nasty? We thought we were friends. So we were: in the EU you do business with each other every day, no matter what. In the days when we were hardly speaking to the Germans about Iraq, we still worked together to stop other members cheating on milk quotas. You never break up completely. The EU is a system of compulsory friendships.

https://www.ft.com/content/5f3df8bc-...6-79eaea5acb64

**Hugh** · 24-03-2019, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

UKIP did enough to force a referendum, The BNP & UKIP which you would describe as far right outdid LibDems in many constituencies and in local elections did even better.

To discount this as an MP’s numbers game would be very foolish. Parliament and the establishment ignored this threat and feeling and what did we get? Brexit.

To ignore this shows you are as out if touch in your ivory tower as most of Westminster.

It’s Hilarious.

Westminster and the Establishment facilitated this fiasco by ignoring large swathes of the electorate that had valid concerns, concerns that were preyed upon by UKIP and the far right.

And now after the result how do they intend to adress those concerns? By ignoring the electorate. Stupid is as stupid does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Nothing says someone is secure in their proposition as much as an ad hominem attack...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

I’d be happy to have another referendum based on the exact same question.

---------- Post added at 16:24 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

I still wouldn’t bet the farm.

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

Yeah I must really come across as insecure. Jesus , you class that as an attack!? Some really sensitive souls on this forum.

It is a widely used phrase that implies the person it is directed at is out of touch, which is what your post previous certainly evidenced. It’s not an attack, get over yourself. Also it was not “ad hominem” I did not avoid the topic of the discussion or try to evade a reply to you. If you’re going to use clever words make sure you know what they mean.

Quote:

Ad Hominem

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

RichardCoulter · 24-03-2019, 20:26

For anyone wondering, this is who invented 'Brexit':

https://news.sky.com/story/brexits-m...cline-11576816

Sephiroth · 24-03-2019, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

So it’s anecdotal evidence.

I believe my daughter. And that evidence is better than none.

Pierre · 24-03-2019, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

That was my point in the last post Hugh..........you need to move on it’s not about you.

I didn’t “avoid” the topic or discussion or try to not to continue to engage in the discussion. Therefore by the very definition you have posted it was not “ad hominem”

I merely pointed out that you’re out of touch, which you have not countered. Shall we move on?