Brexit (Old)

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Aah, I see the old EU immigration debate has come up again so I guess it's time to post a link to the governments own study - https://assets.publishing.service.go...EEA_report.PDF.

From that report we have;

Wages;


Public services;


Again, the question remains why did successive UK governments allow unrestricted migration from the EU when there were mechanisms in place under EU law to prevent migration becoming an excessive burden to the state. This includes rules that say they must be working, self supporting or in education after three months or they must leave.Belgium manages this just fine.

Andrew posted something similar earlier; in response I said that I don't think that these reports don't paint the true picture. I still believe that the majority of unskilled immigrants get a better deal out of them coming here than we do.

Economics aside, they are putting pressure on public services. Yes, some help the NHS, but how many more of these NHS staff are needed to cope with the immigrants themselves?

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Don’t forget that non-EU immigration has been higher the EU immigration for decades, and still is...

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Interesting...

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I have experience of immigrants, their jobs, their pay and their history of benefit claims due to past and present roles.

Assumptions are seldom true and never helpful.

You'll know then that EU migrants are less likely to be claiming benefits, and more likely to be contributors than our home grown population.

. Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8542506.html

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

You'll know then that EU migrants are less likely to be claiming benefits, and more likely to be contributors than our home grown population.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8542506.html

This explains a lot.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...EEA_report.PDF

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

She sees an opportunity, obviously! Corbyn doesn't understand Brexit and doesn't know where he stands on it. A debate on this subject will demonstrate to the electorate who would make a better leader..

Just like she saw the last General Electrion as an opportunity . #strongandstable

The more Corbyn was exposed in an election campaign, the further his ratings went up !

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Just like she saw the last General Electrion as an opportunity . #strongandstable

The more Corbyn was exposed in an election campaign, the further his ratings went up !

Personally Corbyn is not the leader l would pick for the Labour party but the Conservatives would be wise not to repeat the same tactic as last time as it obviously did not work in 2017 and was pretty much a unmitigated disaster for them as voters get fed up with repeated personal character assassination attacks.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Course you have - let me guess, you can’t discuss these ‘roles’...

I have experience of violent racist thugs (BNP and EDL), but, strangely enough, I do not make the assumption that they represent all, or even the majority, of Brits, so don’t judge all Brits on the inappropriate behaviour of a few.

I have experience of 'the behaviour' of many immigrants through various roles, such as voluntary work, management committees, sub committees, past & present jobs etc.

What a lot do to get round the no Jobseekers Allowance for three months rule (in non Universal Credit areas) is to become 'self employed' for 16 hours a week on a tiny income e.g. taxi drivers claiming to work for £1 an hour or scrap metal dealers who say they hardly find anything. This entitles them to claim Child Benefit, maximum Tax Credits, Council Tax Reduction, Housing Benefit etc.

This is why Camerons Government made changes to how Universal Credit is administered ie if the self employed don't earn above a notional threshold after a year, benefit is terminated.

In addition, his Government restricted the amount of children who could be claimed for to two and increased the minimum wage, so that those in legitimate remunerative work would be able to claim less.

Don't forget that some of these children have never set foot in the UK.

As the EU require EU immigrants and British people to be treated the same, this also applied to people here too and is causing problems, something that Mrs May's Government has promised to look into.

Your wife (or one of here colleagues) may be able to confirm exactly what's been going on.

Another issue that I have is the EU reciprocal arrangements for healthcare. EU visitors are allowed the same treatment afforded to natives of the relevant country. Those coming here can avail themselves of our NHS, yet if we go to their countries where free healthcare is limited or non existant, we have to pay.

We are being taken for a ride simply because we provide free healthcare, which hardly encourages Governments to provide this.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Personally Corbyn is not the leader l would pick for the Labour party but the Conservatives would be wise not to repeat the same tactic as last time as it obviously did not work in 2017 and was pretty much a unmitigated disaster for them as voters get fed up with repeated personal character assassination attacks.

Agreed. I don't need a telly debate to tell me that Theresa May is the better of these two underwhelming politicians, although I do hugely admire Theresa May's resilience and determination. It would probably benefit JC to appear but he's probably daft enough to avoid the opportunity.
Labour should bring back David Milliband but he probably thinks UK politics is a thankless task.

[Hom3r]

A TV debate is pointless.

All JC does is shout and tell May to stand aside and let Labour take over Brexit.

But JC just want to keep us in the single market.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed. I don't need a telly debate to tell me that Theresa May is the better of these two underwhelming politicians, although I do hugely admire Theresa May's resilience and determination. It would probably benefit JC to appear but he's probably daft enough to avoid the opportunity.

Problem for May will be that she'll go into Maybot mode and say bugger all anything of value.

Corbyn will just stick it to her and will win the debate hands down. But that isn't an election result.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

A TV debate is pointless.

All JC does is shout and tell May to stand aside and let Labour take over Brexit.

But JC just want to keep us in the single market.

Think you'll find Jezza is more of a Eurosceptic than May ...

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Mr K

You'll know then that EU migrants are less likely to be claiming benefits, and more likely to be contributors than our home grown population.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8542506.html

Like I say, some do provide financial (and other) benefits to the UK and there's no reason that they cannot continue to be welcomed.

However, I maintain that these reports don't paint the full picture and that the immigrants are the ones to mainly benefit from coming here (especially where they are uneducated, unskilled etc). These are the ones we need to rid ourselves of.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Andrew posted something similar earlier; in response I said that I don't think that these reports don't paint the true picture. I still believe that the majority of unskilled immigrants get a better deal out of them coming here than we do.

Economics aside, they are putting pressure on public services. Yes, some help the NHS, but how many more of these NHS staff are needed to cope with the immigrants themselves?[.

It's natural to be influenced by what we see and experience as opposed to the bigger picture that we get from grey statistics. We probably all are far more swayed than we care to admit by our own experiences, especially adverse ones.
If you look at the ages of EU immigrants v the current UK population, you will see that they are younger hence the £2,300 a year profit the country makes from them.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Think you'll find Jezza is more of a Eurosceptic than May ...

He always has been.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Like I say, some do provide financial (and other) benefits to the UK and there's no reason that they cannot continue to be welcomed.

However, I maintain that these reports don't paint the full picture and that the immigrants are the ones to mainly benefit from coming here (especially where they are uneducated, unskilled etc). These are the ones we need to rid ourselves of.

These reports are independent and are free from political influence.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Think you'll find Jezza is more of a Eurosceptic than May ...

Jezza has a triangular dilemma. He is torn between Labour MPs who favour Remain, Labour constituencies who favour Leave and Jezza himself who secretly favours Leave but also wants to be in power so needs to oppose Leave to get in power.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Jezza has a triangular dilemma. He is torn between Labour MPs who favour Remain, Labour constituencies who favour Leave and Jezza himself who secretly favours Leave but also wants to be in power so needs to oppose Leave to get in power.

One good reason why he would welcome leaving the EU is that he could nationalise and subsidise to his heart's content until he bankrupts us. Then we can prepare for austerity all over again.