President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I doubt he seriously believes that Obama's government would have interfered in the running of the FBI.

You really are a little behind the times, as is Arthur, who should go back to following what the latest issues in Coronation Street or X-Factor are... as he clearly has not got a clue what he's talking about and is unable to form his own opinion on anything, without the aid of a good tabloid or some cheap magazine or American book because he "reads" you know.

Why shouldn't Trump believe about the Obama Admin trying to frame him?

I certainly believe Obama Admin did, he certainly had scumbag underlings seeming to be doing his dirty deeds for him, John Brennan, former CIA Dir, Clapper....all because they couldn't accept the prospect of a Trump Presidency. They had a lot to lose when Trump won, mainly their jobs.

Anyway, the DOJ have responded to Trump's demands tonight saying they WILL expand the scope of the FISA abuses investigation via the OIG, to include whether or not a directive was given from the Obama WH to spy on Trump campaign and if they find wrong doing will initiate criminal referrals if evidence is found.

DOJ spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores responded tonight by saying:

The Department has asked the Inspector General to expand the ongoing review of the (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) application process to include determining whether there was any impropriety or political motivation in how the FBI conducted its counterintelligence investigation of persons suspected of involvement with the Russian agents who interfered in the 2016 presidential election. As always, the Inspector General will consult with the appropriate U.S. Attorney if there is any evidence of potential criminal conduct."

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Why shouldn't Trump believe about the Obama Admin trying to frame him?

1. Did the Obama have past form with this type of thing? No.
2. Would the FBI do something purely political? Unlikely.
3. Why has Trump only raised it now?

They will still need evidence the FBI were taking their orders from the White House rather just being a routine part of the investigation. Remember that the actual reports allege this agent met people suspect of Russian interference and they were not embedded within the Trump campaign.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

You really are a little behind the times, as is Arthur, who should go back to following what the latest issues in Coronation Street or X-Factor are... as he clearly has not got a clue what he's talking about and is unable to form his own opinion on anything, without the aid of a good tabloid or some cheap magazine or American book because he "reads" you know.

Just because Arthur has come up with a different opinion than yours doesn't make it invalid.

The F.B.I are very capable of being politically motivated they have been in the past and given the level of corruption within the American political system it's not that big of a stretch to believe there was a campaign of sorts against Trump. We have contradictory accounts already with Obama saying he had nothing to do with the F.B.I investigation and agents communicating that he was closely following the investigation.

As for Clinton the sheer number of immunity deals handed out made that investigation a total joke and it has been heavily criticised from all directions. Too much information was lost\destroyed by Clinton for there not to have been something damning and again we have Clinton publicly saying one thing and the families of the Benghazi personnel saying she told them something totally different. If I was totally innocent of any wrongdoing in regard to something I wouldn't stop calling for a proper investigation to exonerate me after the joke investigation unlike Clinton who is the only person happy with the joke investigation.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...n-surveillance

The wording is interesting...

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...n-surveillance

"If anyone did infiltrate or surveil participants in a presidential campaign for inappropriate purposes, we need to know about it and take appropriate action," Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said in a statement.

DOJ spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores said in a separate statement that "the Inspector General will consult with the appropriate U.S. Attorney if there is any evidence of potential criminal conduct."

Not "the Trump presidential campaign" but "a presidential campaign".

And "inappropriate purposes" - what if they find it was for "appropriate purposes" like criminal activity?

That widens the brief.

[1andrew1]

Reading the context of Trump's tweet is interesting. Apparently it was in response to leaks that his son met two princes from Saudia Arabia and the UAE who were offering their assistance to help Trump win the election. So his tweet sounds like a regular Trump distraction ploy.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

1. Did the Obama have past form with this type of thing? No.
2. Would the FBI do something purely political? Unlikely.
3. Why has Trump only raised it now?

1) You must have missed the brief where evidence was uncovered that the Obama Administration spied on foreign country leaders, like Angela Merkel's cell phone, spied on former UN Secretary General, Bank Ki-Moon etc....

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/03/p...ion/index.html

So to answer your first question. Big FAT YES!

2) Again have you been sleeping?

Andrew McCabe, Deputy FBI Director who was fired because he lied, under Oath several times, (Lacked Candor) his wife accepted Donations from a Democrat. He is supposed to have sat on information that thousands of more Clinton emails were found before the FBI announced they were re-opening the Clinton email investigation.

Two Agents who fell in love with each other, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, which breaks FBI protocol, were texting each other like crazy and a trail of texts discovered showed their political bias towards Hillary, such strong bias led to a very 'infected' investigation, where they decided to clear Hillary Clinton of wrong doing but decided they would act against Trump if he won, re their "Insurance Policy" that they texted each other, about that they had discussed a plan in "Andy's office", that's Andy McCabe.

So to answer number 2. Yes they acted Politically. As Trump as accused them of being so, they were tainted under it's former leadership.

As for 3, Trump has repeatedly said he and has campaign were spied on, he raised it weeks after being inaugurated that Obama admin spied on him. He was laughed at and shrugged off as just being silly, he is having the last laugh now.

Remember he tweeted this last year.....

So he has not just suddenly been claiming he was spied upon...

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

The F.B.I are very capable of being politically motivated they have been in the past and given the level of corruption within the American political system it's not that big of a stretch to believe there was a campaign of sorts against Trump. We have contradictory accounts already with Obama saying he had nothing to do with the F.B.I investigation and agents communicating that he was closely following the investigation.

As for Clinton the sheer number of immunity deals handed out made that investigation a total joke and it has been heavily criticised from all directions. Too much information was lost\destroyed by Clinton for there not to have been something damning and again we have Clinton publicly saying one thing and the families of the Benghazi personnel saying she told them something totally different. If I was totally innocent of any wrongdoing in regard to something I wouldn't stop calling for a proper investigation to exonerate me after the joke investigation unlike Clinton who is the only person happy with the joke investigation.

If the FBI were politically motivated, why did they announce just over a week before the election they were re-opening the mail server investigation (then closed it a couple of days later)?

Why didn’t any of the ‘politically motivated’ FBI leak that there was an on-going investigation into the Trump campaign during the presidential election, say, just before the election voting day?

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

The F.B.I are very capable of being politically motivated they have been in the past and given the level of corruption within the American political system it's not that big of a stretch to believe there was a campaign of sorts against Trump. We have contradictory accounts already with Obama saying he had nothing to do with the F.B.I investigation and agents communicating that he was closely following the investigation.

As for Clinton the sheer number of immunity deals handed out made that investigation a total joke and it has been heavily criticised from all directions. Too much information was lost\destroyed by Clinton for there not to have been something damning and again we have Clinton publicly saying one thing and the families of the Benghazi personnel saying she told them something totally different. If I was totally innocent of any wrongdoing in regard to something I wouldn't stop calling for a proper investigation to exonerate me after the joke investigation unlike Clinton who is the only person happy with the joke investigation.

There have been several Republican led investigations into Benghazi which found nothing really on Clinton. The e-mail thing seems dodgy but Benghazi has been so exhaustively gone over, multiple times, by Republican politicians intentionally looking for incriminating evidence that it seems we won't find anything more. At this point people can believe what they want to believe. I am not sure what yet another investigation into Benghazi will find that the several ones before did not.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Reading the context of Trump's tweet is interesting. Apparently it was in response to leaks that his son met two princes from Saudia Arabia and the UAE who were offering their assistance to help Trump win the election. So his tweet sounds like a regular Trump distraction ploy.

If you were being politically targeted by your opponents, spied upon "Illegally" re FISA abuses, had informants planted in your campaign, i'd be going absolutely mad as well, it's bloody disgusting how the Obama Administration acted, weaponising the FBI/DOJ to spy on a political opponent is a massive scandal that breaks all other scandals, this absolutely dwarfs the Nixon/Watergate era, from the early 70's.

Originally Posted by Mick

1) You must have missed the brief where evidence was uncovered that the Obama Administration spied on foreign country leaders, like Angela Merkel's cell phone, spied on former UN Secretary General, Bank Ki-Moon etc....

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/03/p...ion/index.html

So to answer your first question. Big FAT YES!

The US Government spying on foreign governments is not quite the same thing. Sort of what intelligence services do.

So he has not just suddenly been claiming he was spied upon...

But so far every accusation Obama 'spied' on him has actually been the FBI investigations people other than him on his campaign during the Russian hacking investigation.

There has been not a shred of evidence that:

1) Obama ordered the wiretapping or spying on the targets of the investigation itself

2) That Trump himself had his phoned tapped

What this has amounted to so far is the resentment that anyone close to Trump should be investigated for anything at all.

---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

If you were being politically targeted by your opponents, spied upon "Illegally" re FISA abuses, had informants planted in your campaign, i'd be going absolutely mad as well, it's bloody disgusting how the Obama Administration acted, weaponising the FBI/DOJ to spy on a political opponent is a massive scandal that breaks all other scandals, this absolutely dwarfs the Nixon/Watergate era, from the early 70's.

Proof?

Originally Posted by Damien

Proof?

It's there. Those text messages gave insight into the political wrong doings for sure under the Obama Administration, they have history of spying on foreign entities, Angela Merkel, UN etc, if they can spy on them, their political opponent is not immune for sure....

Originally Posted by Mick

It's there. Those text messages gave insight into the political wrong doings for sure under the Obama Administration, they have history of spying on foreign entities, Angela Merkel, UN etc, if they can spy on them, their political opponent is not immune for sure....

As I said there is a big difference between spying on foreign country, bread and butter stuff for intelligence services, and spying on domestic opponents. You cannot make the leap that the former is evidence for the latter, every country spies on other countries. What do you think MI6 does for example?

And the proof isn't there. You make massive leaps to get there. The text messages do not say Obama was choosing who to wiretap, that Trump himself was wiretapped or that they have an informant embedded in the campaign. The articles about this informant only state that someone undercover talked to suspects which itself is normal in an investigation.

[TheDaddy]

Wouldn't it be better to keep all these issues separate, it's to easy to deflect criticism by saying so and so did this or as is proving the case might have done this, possibly did that, could have ordered that or thought this was a good idea