Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[none]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Thrust me i will be joining you very soon. At the moment it will be Be Unlimited for my Broadband, Sky for my TV and BT for my Phone.

Might be wise to hold off on a move to BE until there are cast iron assurances that they will not implement phorm - http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...opic.php?51.10

there's speculation that they may at least be in talks with them :/

[crazymaniac]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Yes, although unlike BT. they don't seem to have done any testing. Unlike Talk Talk they haven't currently announced any system that routes data from people who have opted out around Phorm's hardware.

Last we heard, they were considering their options.

Looking at the bottom of www.webwise.com it says:

"When Webwise is on, you receive all benefits at no additional cost if you’re a customer of one of these leading ISPs:"

then there are just two logo's



[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

If Virgin are signed up, why arn't they there?

or have I got confused about your answer?

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by crazymaniac

Looking at the bottom of www.webwise.com it says:

"When Webwise is on, you receive all benefits at no additional cost if you’re a customer of one of these leading ISPs:"

then there are just two logo's





If Virgin are signed up, why arn't they there?

or have I got confused about your answer?

Their logo was there when this thread started. It has subsequently been removed, at whose behest we do not know.

[crazymaniac]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Their logo was there when this thread started. It has subsequently been removed, at whose behest we do not know.

Good. All seems to be one big privacy scam.

[Kellargh]

BT have disgusted me more than ever, I'm certainly changing for the better. By the looks of the BT community forum, BT are not even interested in replying to customer's concerns so what's the point in complaining, let them crash and burn. I encourage everyone to change ISP if BT do not stop stealing our personal information.

*RANT!!*

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by none

Might be wise to hold off on a move to BE until there are cast iron assurances that they will not implement phorm - http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...opic.php?51.10

there's speculation that they may at least be in talks with them :/

FFS i just wish Phorm would go jump off a cliff. Every good ISP will be a target of these Spyware pedalers soon

[Florence]

Yes we have sky for TV will be BT for phone and Aquiss for internet since they are small good and have assured me they are not interested in introducing phorm.

If it is any use this link will help you get the phone line back at half price. http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/p...Impl133605.htm

[aMIGA_dUDE]

Another legal problem for Phorm (SPYCOMS)

Copyright Law.

Everything you do how ever trival, you automatical own the Copyright to. Everything you type etc. Now just by typing URL's you do not own the copyright to domain name but you own Copyright to it order it was entered (History). Sounds daft but that is IP law for you.

You get DVD covermount on a computer magazine. Now there little chance that magazine ownes copyright to software upon that DVD, but they own Copyright to DVD disk.

Now start charge ISP/Phorm for unauthorised reproduction and storage of you IP.

[isf]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

They protect you from Phising (but so does IE7 out of the box, and Safari? and you can get plugins for other browsers to do the same for free). So where is the value add to the consumer. There is none.
Or as TBL put it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7299875.stm

IE7, Firefox and Opera all come with phishing protection built-in. Safari doesn't, but ironically that's the only major browser Phorm don't support. So there's definitely no added value for the majority of users.

For me, Phorms phishing protection is a value-subtracting proposition since I actively disable browser features I don't like; google safebrowsing, search suggestions, HTML5 ping, prefetching, HTTP referer.

[CaptJamieHunter]

Woke up to find that BT has admitted lying over testing with Phorm last summer: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/17/bt_phorm_lies/

It took long enough for Virgin Media to get a response to me but I have it here. I wrote to the Group Compliance Office, 160 Great Portland Street, London W1W 5QA.

It reads:

"14th March 2008

Dear CaptHunter

I write in response to your letter received 5th March 2008.

First I would like to clarify that whilst there has been a lot of press speculation regarding a tie up between Virgin Media and Phrom, nothing has yet been implemented and we are still carrying out our analysis of how we will deploy Phorm's product offering, together with any potential impact of this operationally and from a customer perspective. Further analysis and testing is anticipated prior to any deployment of the Phorm product offering by us.

Before any new technology is implemented onto Virgin Media's network we always ensure that the technology is subject to rigorous due diligence and we will not roll out new technology until we are satisfied that it is compliant, as such we will ensure that all relevant legal and privacy compliance issues are appropriately addressed to our satisfaction before rollout.

You may be interested to know that independently Phorm have been in discussion with Ofcom, Home Office, UK Information Commissioner and are talking to the European Commission regarding their product, to provide clarity on how their product offering works and to directly address and placate any concerns that are/have been raised by these bodies. I trust that this demonstrates that they are also ensuring that they are taking concerns of users on board and that they are seeking to ensure their product is compliant and meets the requirements of the various regulatory bodies that regulate this area.

When Virgin Media does roll out this solution provided by Phorm, all customers who are due to receive the service will be notified of such and will not be forced to use the system, fully in accordance with Regulation 6 of the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003. However, to reiterate, no solution has yet been implemented and will not be until we are confident that it is compliant to do so.

Yours sincerely

Ian Woodham
Virgin Media Group Data Protection Officer"

No reference is made to my refusal to allow any data to be passed on to any other companies, nor is any detailed mention of the "due diligence" (a phrase I have utter contempt for as it's always covered up in my experience), the shadowy past and questionable ethics of Phorm or the point that I shouldn't have to accept a cookie to opt out.

It's not quite a complete whitewash with all the bs about improved web experience but it could have been more detailed given the 12 day wait I've had before getting this response.

I'll think for a while before putting a response together. Thoughts anyone?


---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:30 ----------

The Foundation for Information Policy Research argues that Phorm is illegal: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7301379.stm

Having just checked the VM logo is still not present on webwise yet it was when this all started so what the hell is going on. If VM had decided not to use the system i would have expected them to be shouting about it by now so thats not what is happening. Is this a devious attempt to hide the fact they are going to use it or is there something more going on and if there is can we please have something off of VM.

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by CaptJamieHunter

No reference is made to my refusal to allow any data to be passed on to any other companies, nor is any detailed mention of the "due diligence" (a phrase I have utter contempt for as it's always covered up in my experience), the shadowy past and questionable ethics of Phorm or the point that I shouldn't have to accept a cookie to opt out.

It's not quite a complete whitewash with all the bs about improved web experience but it could have been more detailed given the 12 day wait I've had before getting this response.

I'll think for a while before putting a response together. Thoughts anyone?

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

The Foundation for Information Policy Research argues that Phorm is illegal: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7301379.stm

Thanks for the update, Captain!

Two thoughts sprang immediately to my mind:

1) The tone of the letter is very definitely "we will be doing this", and not "we're thinking of maybe doing this" - so that's bad.

2) The writer seems to be going out of his way to avoid addressing your specific instructions. Now this may just be because they've not finalized the way the service will be implemented yet, or it could be because they've sought legal advice on what they'd have to do if a customer issued them a specific DPA notice prohibiting them from routing any of that customer's data through Phorm-related equipment/software in their network, and the advice was "if the customer tells you that, you'll have to comply." So perhaps they're adopting a strategy of keeping quiet about that particular avenue?

More good news....
Phorm shares down another 9% today

...and....2 of the 3 Technology stories on the BBC website this afternoon are about Phorm....they were slow to get started, but it looks like Auntie is finally waking-up to how important this story is...the news ticker on the front page of BBC news currently reads "Phorm system "illegal" in the UK according to FIPR"

[flowrebmit]

Originally Posted by CaptJamieHunter

Woke up to find that BT has admitted lying over testing with Phorm last summer: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/17/bt_phorm_lies/

It took long enough for Virgin Media to get a response to me but I have it here. I wrote to the Group Compliance Office, 160 Great Portland Street, London W1W 5QA.

It reads:

<snip potential Copyright material?>

Isn't publishing a letter in full against the Copyright of the Author or Company that the letter writer works for unless you've sought permission?

[Toto]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Having just checked the VM logo is still not present on webwise yet it was when this all started so what the hell is going on. If VM had decided not to use the system i would have expected them to be shouting about it by now so thats not what is happening. Is this a devious attempt to hide the fact they are going to use it or is there something more going on and if there is can we please have something off of VM.

I suspect its a brand issue. Brand placement is absolutely paramount to Virgin Companies, its almost a religion. I suspect that they have requested the removal of the logo until a firm agreement is made to adopt the system.

I'll stick my neck out further and suggest that they may well duck out of this for now. Customer feeling is running high, most of the feedback from here, DS and their own newsgroups would suggest that VM have underestimated the bad feeling this system has given birth to.

The fact that Neil Burkett was quoted in the Register as saying that he was revisiting this plan means that the wave of complaint has washed into the Directors field of view, and as the newly installed CEO he can't afford a small rebellion of BB customers heading to insugnificant ADSL rivals...it just isn't good for business.

Revenue from adverts on their portal sites will continue, they may even look at another up-coming alternative to Phorm. Sky are already doing this with their email accounts migrated to the Google (Gmail) system, one reason why Sky may well not get on board if their webmail platform brings in the bucks. I seem to remember VM trialling google mail on a limited basis, perhaps this may see fruition.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Kellargh

BT have disgusted me more than ever, I'm certainly changing for the better. By the looks of the BT community forum, BT are not even interested in replying to customer's concerns so what's the point in complaining, let them crash and burn. I encourage everyone to change ISP if BT do not stop stealing our personal information.
*RANT!!*

Hey, at least BT Retail have a forum in which they're willing to discuss the issue with their customers!
VM can't even be bothered to revise their three-week-old, error-ridden statement!

And, particularly as a Virgin Media employee, how do you feel about VM "stealing our personal information"?
Shouldn't you be calling for VM customers to leave too?