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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 19-02-2008, 17:07   #91
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Virgin Media sure know how to hit that self destruct button don't they ?
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Old 19-02-2008, 17:13   #92
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I'll update this thread as and when I get more information.
Please consider starting *another* thread (and making it sticky) with any important information you and others obtain.
Adding it into this already very busy thread will make it almost impossible for newcomers to locate and benefit from.

Thanks.
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Old 19-02-2008, 17:19   #93
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedee View Post
Please consider starting *another* thread (and making it sticky) with any important information you and others obtain.
Adding it into this already very busy thread will make it almost impossible for newcomers to locate and benefit from.

Thanks.
Sorry but that would clutter up the place - One thread is enough - people can catch up with this in this thread, as well as the news item on the front page, to which this thread relates. There is also the search feature located at the top of every thread.

But I will reach a compromise and update the thread title with the post number which contains the uptodate information so it can be searched more easily.
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Old 19-02-2008, 17:36   #94
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Sorry but that would clutter up the place - One thread is enough - people can catch up with this in this thread, as well as the news item on the front page, to which this thread relates. There is also the search feature located at the top of every thread.

But I will reach a compromise and update the thread title with the post number which contains the uptodate information so it can be searched more easily.
It's obviously totally your choice but I'd recommend again:

One discussion thread, that'll quite likely extend to 20+ pages within a week and more once the new system goes live, and
A second announcement thread -- sticky and closed so only Mods can post perhaps -- purely for a summary of what's been uncovered so far. Probably only half a dozen posts.

If you came to the forum for the first time looking for vital information, which would you find easier?

ymmv
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Old 19-02-2008, 17:36   #95
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Whilst you are keen to post this information - others are not and they are entitled to this privacy although I notice you didn't post your full address. So you are keen to keep some details private.
But the information is already out there. Just by searching this site you'll be able to find which company I work for, Which Dept, and what my job title is, By searching others you'll find my full address, telephone number along with my email.
 
Old 19-02-2008, 17:51   #96
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akia View Post
But the information is already out there. Just by searching this site you'll be able to find which company I work for, Which Dept, and what my job title is. By searching others you'll find my full address, telephone number along with my email.
Sorry but you cannot get such information at all by searching this site.

You don't know my full address details as much as I don't know yours and I can search this site high and low - I will not find it because this site does not contain such information unless of course you have chosen to give this information out.
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:06   #97
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akia View Post
But the information is already out there. Just by searching this site you'll be able to find which company I work for, Which Dept, and what my job title is, By searching others you'll find my full address, telephone number along with my email.
Ok here you go. If you are so adamant the info is out there.

Username sirius

i play games
been here a while

away you go tell me all the info you find about me ?
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:08   #98
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
Ok here you go.

Username sirius i play games away you go tell me all the info you find about me ? you have 24 hours
This could be a good game
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:13   #99
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I can see why they want it to be an opt out process. Who is going to opt in?
For people not savvy enough to use Firefox/adblock, I should imagine seeing relative ads would be a lot better than random or content-targetted ads.

Not sure i'm happy about the opt-out process. Every time you clear your cookies you have to go to the site and request a new one?
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:13   #100
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
This could be a good game
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:27   #101
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
For people not savvy enough to use Firefox/adblock, I should imagine seeing relative ads would be a lot better than random or content-targetted ads.

Not sure i'm happy about the opt-out process. Every time you clear your cookies you have to go to the site and request a new one?
+ Multiple machines. Multiple users (kids etc). Also how/when will cookie be sent? Do you have to visit VM home page at start of every session, or will they use a proxy session to intercept html and request the cookie?

I was planning on cancelling again now I got over the euphoria of my temporary 10M upgrade/cancellation glitch (see other threads). But I was still very much in two minds. If this goes ahead it will be a no-brainer and help towards next years holiday
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:48   #102
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77]

Update 2. For further clarification, Virgin Media have directed me to the following FAQ on the Phorm website...

Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Phorm?

Phorm is an innovative digital technology company that designed and built the infrastructure and technology that power Webwise and the Open Internet Exchange
(OIX). [X]

Which ISPs have partnered with Phorm to launch the OIX and Webwise?

UK ISPs representing approximately 70% of the UK broadband ISP market have joined Phorm to launch the service to consumers. These are BT Group PLC, The Carphone Warehouse PLC and Virgin Media Group. [X]

For Consumers - Webwise

What is Webwise?

Webwise is a feature offered by leading UK ISPs in the UK that helps protect customers from fraudulent websites and replaces generic online ads with ads that are relevant to customers' interests. Webwise is powered by Phorm technology.[X]

How do I opt out, or switch off the service?

If you have the OIX or Webwise available from your ISP, simply go to www.webwise.com and click Webwise Off. If you have several computers using the same internet connection, or use different log-ins or browsers, be sure to switch off Webwise from each one.

When Webwise is off, you will no longer receive warnings before reaching fraudulent sites. Webwise will also no longer analyse any data from the web pages that you browse to see if there are better ads to show you. For more information, see www.webwise.com/how-it-works/faq.html. [X]

How does Phorm protect customer privacy?

No private or personal information, or anything that can identify you, is ever stored - and that means your privacy is never at risk.
Phorm identifies each user with a unique, randomly-generated number. With it, Phorm can deliver warnings of potentially dangerous websites and replace untargeted ads with more relevant ones, but can never identify the user personally. Phorm's technology can also be switched off easily at any time. [X]

What information does Phorm store about browsing behaviour?

Phorm only stores advertising categories that match a user's areas of interest. There is no sensitive data stored. [X]

Does Phorm ever store a customer's IP address?

No. The IP address is never stored. [X]

Does Phorm collect any information that can identify me by name, address or any other personally-identifying information?

No. Phorm does not collect personal information, and cannot use it to serve ads. The system does not attempt to identify the user in any way and does not integrate with any system (like the ISP's log-in system) that could identify the user. [X]

How does Phorm ensure that no personal information is collected?

Phorm uses technology that has been built from the ground up to avoid any information that might identify a customer personally. Phorm technology does not view any information on secure (HTTPS) pages, and ignores strings of numbers longer than three digits to ensure that we do not collect credit card numbers, phone numbers, National Insurance or other potentially private information. [X]

Can a user's browsing history be identified if the government or ISP requests it?

No. The browsing history is not stored in any way. The unique fundamental design of this technology ensures that consumer privacy is protected and that, even under compulsion, no personally-identifying data or detailed browsing data can be retroactively provided to anyone.
The privacy claims Phorm make about its technology's use of consumer data have been verified by leading global auditing firm Ernst & Young. (View report PDF) The technology used by the OIX will be regularly audited on an ongoing basis to make sure that we continue to comply with our commitment. [X]

What type of security measures do you have so that aggregated data is not stolen or lost?

Phorm has a high level of system and network security and operates a stringent security policy. Access to database hosts is restricted to systems administrators and data access is only permitted for specific purposes within the terms of the security policy.
However, the major safeguard is that all data is anonymous and cannot be attached to any individual. Only derived channel-match information is stored against the anonymous id in the database and all raw data is deliberately and continuously deleted according to the privacy timeline. These procedures are regularly audited and verified by Ernst & Young. [X]
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:48   #103
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77]

Virgin (phorm) might need to rethink the idea of an opt in or opt out procedure relying on a cookie:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Information Commissioner's Office

Guidance on the Privacy and Electronic
Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003
Part 2: Security, confidentiality, traffic and location data,
itemised billing, CLI and directories

2.2 Information to be provided
Cookies or similar devices must not be used unless the subscriber or user of the
relevant terminal equipment:
• is provided with clear and comprehensive information about the purposes
of the storage of, or access to, that information; and
• is given the opportunity to refuse the storage of, or access to, that
information.

The Regulations are not prescriptive about the sort of information that should be
provided, but the text should be sufficiently full and intelligible to allow individuals
to clearly understand the potential consequences of allowing storage and access
to the information collected by the device should they wish to do so. This is
comparable with the transparency requirements of the first data protection
principle (see Legal Guidance paragraph 3.1.7).
There may be different interpretations of the requirement that the user or
subscriber should be 'given the opportunity to refuse' the use of the cookie type
device. At the very least, however, the user or subscriber should be given a clear
choice as to whether or not they wish to allow a service provider to continue to
store information on the terminal in question.
The fact that an 'opportunity to refuse' such storage or access must be provided
imposes a greater obligation on the relevant party than simply making refusal a
possibility. The mechanism by which a subscriber or user may exercise their right
to refuse continued storage should be prominent, intelligible and readily available
to all, not just the most computer literate or technically aware. Where the relevant
information is included in a privacy policy, for example, the policy should be
clearly signposted at least on those pages where a user may enter a website.
The relevant information should appear in the policy in a way that is suitably
prominent and accessible and it should be worded so that all users and
subscribers are able to easily understand and act upon it.
On that basis I can refuse a cookie that stores that I've opted out, because it's storing information on my preference. Similarly I can refuse the opt in cookie.
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:53   #104
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Update 2. For further clarification, Virgin Media have directed me to the following FAQ on the Phorm website...

Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Phorm?

Phorm is an innovative digital technology company that designed and built the infrastructure and technology that power Webwise and the Open Internet Exchange
(OIX). [X]

Which ISPs have partnered with Phorm to launch the OIX and Webwise?

UK ISPs representing approximately 70% of the UK broadband ISP market have joined Phorm to launch the service to consumers. These are BT Group PLC, The Carphone Warehouse PLC and Virgin Media Group. [X]

For Consumers - Webwise

What is Webwise?

Webwise is a feature offered by leading UK ISPs in the UK that helps protect customers from fraudulent websites and replaces generic online ads with ads that are relevant to customers' interests. Webwise is powered by Phorm technology.[X]

How do I opt out, or switch off the service?

If you have the OIX or Webwise available from your ISP, simply go to www.webwise.com and click Webwise Off. If you have several computers using the same internet connection, or use different log-ins or browsers, be sure to switch off Webwise from each one.

When Webwise is off, you will no longer receive warnings before reaching fraudulent sites. Webwise will also no longer analyse any data from the web pages that you browse to see if there are better ads to show you. For more information, see www.webwise.com/how-it-works/faq.html. [X]
No matter what that site says i still think Virgin are totally in the wrong by making this Spyware a opt out not a opt in.
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Old 19-02-2008, 19:20   #105
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post

When Webwise is off, you will no longer receive warnings before reaching fraudulent sites. Webwise will also no longer analyse any data from the web pages that you browse to see if there are better ads to show you. For more information, see www.webwise.com/how-it-works/faq.html. [X]
They really like to play on your fears don't they
I bet they're hoping people will not notice that their choices are either sanctioned (£->Phorm) or unsanctioned (normal) web-ads, while all the time wrapping it up as if they're providing us with a 'service'.

Fortunately, I like to slice my own bread. I don't need Phorm to do it for me.
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