Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > Virgin Media Services > Virgin Media Internet Service

Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 22-02-2008, 08:29   #181
popper
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,270
popper has a bronze arraypopper has a bronze arraypopper has a bronze array
popper has a bronze arraypopper has a bronze arraypopper has a bronze arraypopper has a bronze arraypopper has a bronze arraypopper has a bronze array
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
The way i see it is that VM will send your information to this Spyware company no matter if you have a cookie set or not. The cookie just stops you seeing the end result which is the adverts. VM in my opinion will be selling MY personal information to this Spyware company no matter what i do,

Therefor the only option should they go ahead with this is for me to dump them and go with a company not using this spyware company
perhaps one of your better options is to bring a small claim for damages and costs to re-locate to another company that takes the legal term 'in good faith' seriously, as a last resort.

plus every single person effected, make the Data Protection Commissioner aware that Virgin Media,BT etc, intend selling its users owned private data for profit,in direct defience of the UK Data Protection Act with an official complaint, the DPC takes emails as an official notice, unlike VM now they removed that option in the T&C.

also you might not want to move for reasons beyond your control and so sending the Virgin media data protection act controller an official DPA complience Notice letter using the old registered post, removing any and all rights they may have receaved from you the owner, to export or transfer any data pertaining to you, will in effect kill any and all for sale options and far more besides (if VM want to stay UK legal).

this Virgin Media/BT/CW Phorm rootkit collaberation goes way beyond even skys legal cockup although you could be forgiven for thinking some VM T&C exec was reading skys plan to sell personal data on the open markets and they wanted in on the action to increase their personal company shares and profits.
http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=576&m=f

Data Commissioner suspends planned legal enforcement action following Sky withdrawal of Customer Notice
http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=575&m=f
"

Press Release


30 November 2007




Complaints about British Sky Broadcasting Group Marketing


Over the past number of days the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner has received a large number of complaints in relation to a letter issued by British Sky Broadcasting Group regarding marketing preferences and an apparent alteration of the terms and conditions governing the use of personal data by British Sky Broadcasting Group. The notice is attached for information.

This unusual step is being taken in response to a notice issued by British Sky Broadcasting Group that is totally unacceptable from a data protection perspective. If implemented as outlined in their notice, a clear breach of the Data Protection Acts in this jurisdiction would result. The notice purports to provide a basis for the company to pass personal details among companies in the British Sky Broadcasting group and to other unnamed third party companies for direct marketing purposes, including by email and text message, unless the customer objects using a specified telephone number.

The Office of the Data Protection Commissioner has been in contact with British Sky Broadcasting Group pointing out that the letter is unacceptable and has asked the company to write to all customers in receipt of the notice in the next few days to clarify the position. The company have informed this Office that the communication was not intended to alter customers marketing preferences. A pre-recorded message has been placed on the company's customer service number and it is understood that an information notice for customers will shortly be placed on their website.

Data Protection Commissioner Billy Hawkes stated that "Irish Data Protection law provides strong protection to customers in terms of the use of their data for direct marketing purposes. I am determined that people's rights in this area will be respected. My Office will be following up with British Sky Broadcasting Group in the coming days to ensure that the rights enjoyed by Irish residents under the Data Protection Acts are fully understood and respected. "
"

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 ----------

readers might find the CAG site an intersting read and perhaps useful for any legal advice and the options available to you as a consumer under the T&Cs/DPA etc
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ternet-issues/
popper is offline  
Advertisement
Old 22-02-2008, 10:12   #182
MovedGoalPosts
cf.mega poster
 
MovedGoalPosts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 127.0.0.1
Age: 54
Posts: 16,410
MovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny stars
MovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny starsMovedGoalPosts has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

The Data Protection Commissioner is the Republic of Eire body. The UK equivalent, I think is the Information Commissioner Office (ICO).
__________________
The NTHW PC Gaming Clan!
MovedGoalPosts is offline  
Old 22-02-2008, 11:42   #183
eth01
Inactive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 852
eth01 is a name known to alleth01 is a name known to alleth01 is a name known to alleth01 is a name known to alleth01 is a name known to alleth01 is a name known to alleth01 is a name known to alleth01 is a name known to all
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Uhhh. I can't believe this.
eth01 is offline  
Old 22-02-2008, 13:37   #184
Traduk
Inactive
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 312
Traduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of Quads
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Sirius,

A cookie has limited capability so I see a possible way of this working as follows. This is based on the sequence to stop logging as outlined on the third party site.

VM will most probably have scanning equipment at the UBR or next step up and all customers are switched on by default. The relevant parts in the data stream are collected and logged against a user's number with collection on by default.

The way to opt out is to have a cookie from the third party site which is switched to monitoring off. The switch off can only be achieved by having the cookie loaded on the user's machine and actively going to the site and electing to switch off. The switch off facility is almost certainly going to session only with the cookie inactive (monitoring on) unless the visit and election for off is the first act by the customer on each session start. That would entail that if someone wishes to have the scanning off for most of the time then they would have to use the third party site as a home page and switch off at every session start.

The above opt in by default pretty well ensures that 99.99% of all customers are monitored all the time. Blocking cookies would under such a method only prevent the customer from using the switch off facility and the company's involved could easily say that customers that do so are opting to refuse the use of the opt out and scoring an own goal.

Personally I am not against profiling at all and use reward cards at some stores which, for a small financial incentive, allow my purchases to be categorised into demographic and wealth classed purchase patterns. I can pick and choose when to have the cards scanned and forfeit the rewards as I wish. If however my every move in the store was monitored by someone looking over my shoulder or a deal was struck with credit card companies to gain that information without reward or choice then I would never use such store again.

My biggest fear is something that I dismissed a few years ago as being over the top is on line fraud. Amongst friends and family I now know of a rapidly growing number of people who have had thousands stolen from cards and bank accounts via fraud. On the extremely rare occasions that the culprits have been caught, the source has been somebody in a position to see and extract from data streams. There have been numerous instances, over the past few months, of data protection violations and given that Government bodies and banks are cavalier with our details are we going to let some ad sharks look over our shoulders.
Traduk is offline  
Old 22-02-2008, 14:15   #185
RizzyKing
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

I am not a huge fan of cookie's and feel they are a very double edged thing. I totally disagree to HAVING to put one or another on because VM want me to be a bigger cash cow then i am now. Sorry this is not an acceptable practice and it is not as though they have offered to lower costs to the subscriber they just assume we will happily continue along as they find a new way to make more money off us.
 
Old 22-02-2008, 15:46   #186
Stuart
-
Cable Forum Team
 
Stuart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere
Services: Virgin for TV and Internet, BT for phone
Posts: 26,525
Stuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver bling
Stuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver bling
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post
No most people will be unaware of it.
So, they will be spied upon in secret? It's interesting to note that if BT allowed external companies to monitor who their customers are phoning in this way, then there would probably be a mass outcry, and it would possibly be illegal.
Quote:
The process is audited by a fairly reputable firm.
Andersen Consulting were a reputable firm. They were involved in the enron scandal..


If this scheme is above board, and is going to benefit the customer in some way, why have Virgin not advertised it more widely? Why is it an opt-out system rather than opt-in (which, last time I check was a violation of the 1998 Data Protection Act which requires that user has to opt in if he wants information stored for use by marketing companies).

Before you say they haven't advertised it widely because it is a trial, that's as may be, but they went on BBC TV and announced they were doing 50 meg before they had even started large scale trials.
Stuart is offline  
Old 22-02-2008, 20:59   #187
Mick Fisher
cf.mega poster
 
Mick Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northants
Age: 74
Services: Sky Unlimited FibrePro Sky Talk Sky+HD
Posts: 5,122
Mick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze array
Mick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze array
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

I'm not trying to condone the action but Virgin media is a business and has to be as competitive as possible, network upgrades have to be paid for somehow.
Thanks for the clarification. While you are at it perhaps you could explain what VM do with all the monthly subscriptions. I naively thought that some of that might be put aside for reinvestment.
Mick Fisher is offline  
Old 22-02-2008, 21:59   #188
eddcase
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

H'ok, so it's pretty much established that this is an unpopular move by VM. Before this thread loses its legs, it needs to move on or the chance of a collective response could be lost.

Anyone have any suggestions to discourage the deal? Most customers won't want to change ISP's (that could be frying pan and fire anyway) and individual complaints are less likely to have impact .
 
Old 22-02-2008, 22:37   #189
Sirius
#HadEnoughOfWin10
 
Sirius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 16,379
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Fisher View Post
Thanks for the clarification. While you are at it perhaps you could explain what VM do with all the monthly subscriptions. I naively thought that some of that might be put aside for reinvestment.
No you and i who pay full wack are funding the "I am going to leave give me a deal types"
__________________
Imagine the mess Comrade Corbyn would make if he got in power
Sirius is offline  
Old 23-02-2008, 02:57   #190
Mick Fisher
cf.mega poster
 
Mick Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northants
Age: 74
Services: Sky Unlimited FibrePro Sky Talk Sky+HD
Posts: 5,122
Mick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze array
Mick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze arrayMick Fisher has a bronze array
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
No you and i who pay full wack are funding the "I am going to leave give me a deal types"
Oh Yes, you are quite right of course. I forgot about that what with all this news of VM Spyware and Rootkits.

I am saddened by the news but not unduly surprised what with VM being what they are.
Mick Fisher is offline  
Old 23-02-2008, 11:55   #191
RizzyKing
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Well way i look at it is i pay £37 a month for my internet if VM want to make money off that then they reduce my bill. I am not having any spyware on my pc so VM can make a few extra quid and i think that is what most people think.
 
Old 23-02-2008, 12:39   #192
Sirius
#HadEnoughOfWin10
 
Sirius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 16,379
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Well way i look at it is i pay £37 a month for my internet if VM want to make money off that then they reduce my bill. I am not having any spyware on my pc so VM can make a few extra quid and i think that is what most people think.
Bang on
__________________
Imagine the mess Comrade Corbyn would make if he got in power
Sirius is offline  
Old 23-02-2008, 14:56   #193
TehTech
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 38
Posts: 286
TehTech is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Well way i look at it is i pay £37 a month for my internet if VM want to make money off that then they reduce my bill. I am not having any spyware on my pc so VM can make a few extra quid and i think that is what most people think.
You hit the nail right on the head there mate!

TehTech is offline  
Old 23-02-2008, 15:30   #194
dav
Inactive
Asteroids Champion
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 399
dav is a glorious beacon of lightdav is a glorious beacon of lightdav is a glorious beacon of lightdav is a glorious beacon of lightdav is a glorious beacon of lightdav is a glorious beacon of lightdav is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddcase View Post
H'ok, so it's pretty much established that this is an unpopular move by VM. Before this thread loses its legs, it needs to move on or the chance of a collective response could be lost.

Anyone have any suggestions to discourage the deal? Most customers won't want to change ISP's (that could be frying pan and fire anyway) and individual complaints are less likely to have impact .
Are there likely to be any representations made to VM by the Cable Forum team?

I'm sure that comprehensive community support for the rejection of this idea would carry some weight, especially in light of the poll results so far.

Actually I'm not so sure, but you have to live in hope, don't you
dav is offline  
Old 23-02-2008, 15:46   #195
Traduk
Inactive
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 312
Traduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of QuadsTraduk has a fine set of Quads
Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

RizzyKing,

I agree with your sentiment inasmuch as I pay £37 a month for a service which is mostly not worth the cost. I strongly object to being profiled for another chunk of profits for VM when they cannot even supply the base product properly.

You need not worry about spyware as according to "paidcontent:UK" it is a back end scanner located within ISP's. It will extract data from the data stream, allocate it to an anonymous number and profile that individual. All of the surfing habits from your IP will be captured and as that information is potentially of interest to many more people than advertisers we will all have to hope that there is no cloned modem on our IP and that we are not one of tens of thousands who have visitors on unsecured wireless routers.

I am normally not given to paranoia but when yesterday it was announced that for air travel within the UK that the government will require mobile phone numbers and credit card details for profiling purposes I am starting to seriously wonder what happened to trust and privacy. I really do think that this supposed ad tool has real potential to scan for "persons of interest" and that will not have escaped the attention of the paranoid ones in power.

How ironic that a few years ago communications interceptions were only granted by judges with belief of due cause and to organisations bound by the official secrets act. Now ISP's can intercept communications to pass on information for 30 pieces of silver.
Traduk is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:34.


Server: xenon.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.