General Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2018) - Page 148

jfman · 21-09-2018, 19:21

I fail to see how it could reasonably be described as having no obstacles.

The difference to broadcasters is you have a finite amount of recording space. So while you may keep a limited amount of content (and most of it temporarily) this would allow almost four million households to hold a significant back catalogue of broadcast television through series links without ever having to worry about running out of space.

All the while some of the same content providers are considering a subscription platform for their back catalogues. As Hugh points out content providers want more control of reruns and overseas distribution, not less.

Liberty will have more success with this in non-English speaking markets where distribution through cable is more likely to be the platform of choice for delivery of any enhanced services and the content providers aren’t also the owners of rival platforms.

OLD BOY · 21-09-2018, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I fail to see how it could reasonably be described as having no obstacles.

The difference to broadcasters is you have a finite amount of recording space. So while you may keep a limited amount of content (and most of it temporarily) this would allow almost four million households to hold a significant back catalogue of broadcast television through series links without ever having to worry about running out of space.

All the while some of the same content providers are considering a subscription platform for their back catalogues. As Hugh points out content providers want more control of reruns and overseas distribution, not less.

Liberty will have more success with this in non-English speaking markets where distribution through cable is more likely to be the platform of choice for delivery of any enhanced services and the content providers aren’t also the owners of rival platforms.

If that was the problem, they could put a limit on the number of hours of recording by way of the cloud in the same way as we have with recording capacity on our STBs. Seriously, I think all the issues you have with this are capable of being overcome.

jfman · 21-09-2018, 19:55

A limit on the number of hours and short time limits on recordings isn’t what cloud based recording is intended to offer, barely better than what we have now and not representative of the service being rolled out in other Liberty markets.

It’s possible to launch an extremely watered down service because Virgin’s competition simply wouldn’t want a full fat version on the market.

Raider999 · 21-09-2018, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobboEdin

I disagree with your figures.
In my experience an hour of UHD recording is between 8 and 10 GB.
Say a football match is two hours and assuming the higher figure, that makes 20 GB or 2% of a 1 TB V6.

I don't know where your 8-10 Gb per hour comes from, but

Your calculations are too simplistic, my figures are based on actual experience of recordings.

Have you taken the following into account :-

A HD football recording takes 2%, a UHD recording takes 5%.

Football recordings of a match are usually around 3 hours with before and afters.

I have recorded the same on UHD and HD as I was interested how much disk space they take.

I don't know how much, but I suspect some of the 1Tb is used for software, EPG etc (certainly is on sky boxes)

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I fail to see how it could reasonably be described as having no obstacles.

The difference to broadcasters is you have a finite amount of recording space. So while you may keep a limited amount of content (and most of it temporarily) this would allow almost four million households to hold a significant back catalogue of broadcast television through series links without ever having to worry about running out of space.

All the while some of the same content providers are considering a subscription platform for their back catalogues. As Hugh points out content providers want more control of reruns and overseas distribution, not less.

Liberty will have more success with this in non-English speaking markets where distribution through cable is more likely to be the platform of choice for delivery of any enhanced services and the content providers aren’t also the owners of rival platforms.

I would have thought there would be 1 recording of a program in the cloud with some way of finding it stored on your V6. Possibly a marker with the cloud address?.

Seriously doubt each person will have their own mini-cloud with recordings just for them - that would end up with an infinite amount of space being required.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------

Why not just offer 2Tb or 4Tb V6 boxes? There was originally supposed to be a 2Tb option, this was quietly dropped by Virgin.

RobboEdin · 21-09-2018, 20:34

The big mistake you have made is using the percentages displayed by the TiVo software. That algorithm has been wrong for a long time.
The 8-10 GB figure I quote is straight from programs recorded on channel 999.
You can get this from going into My Shows, highlighting a show then pressing right. Once there, press the Info button then scroll down and you’ll get the actual GB figure for that program.
When two different people tell you you’re wrong and they get their information from two different but valid sources, you’re usually wrong.

Raider999 · 21-09-2018, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobboEdin

The big mistake you have made is using the percentages displayed by the TiVo software. That algorithm has been wrong for a long time.
The 8-10 GB figure I quote is straight from programs recorded on channel 999.
You can get this from going into My Shows, highlighting a show then pressing right. Once there, press the Info button then scroll down and you’ll get the actual GB figure for that program.
When two different people tell you you’re wrong and they get their information from two different but valid sources, you’re usually wrong.

You may be correct re the percentages used by V6 - but surely they will be wrong by the same percentage?

I can agree with your last sentence, however I can only find you telling me I am wrong (twice) - maybe I missed another post somewhere.

As for the 8-10Gb figure - my recordings have been from BT sports UHD channel (555) and the corresponding recording from the HD channel - possibly BT has a less compressed offering?

RobboEdin · 21-09-2018, 21:33

jfman, post 2182, is the second person who disagrees with you. He gives the actual fugures for BT 4K, channel 555, at around 12 GB per hour, slightly more than the 8-10 GB I suggest for channel 999.

Raider999 · 21-09-2018, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobboEdin

jfman, post 2182, is the second person who disagrees with you. He gives the actual fugures for BT 4K, channel 555, at around 12 GB per hour, slightly more than the 8-10 GB I suggest for channel 999.

See that post now, didn't pick it up before as it didn't quote myself.

Yes 12Gb is higher than you suggest (between 50% and 20%) - I have not found anything on 999 I want to watch - hence my use of 555 as a yardstick.

Again he is working on 2 hours of broadcast whereas 3 hrs would be a more normal length.

jfman · 21-09-2018, 23:48

I only gave that as an illustrative figure to help the discussion.

Virgin TV Ultra HD broadcasts at a variable bitrate and recorded averages are 10-20% lower than BT Sport 4K.

---------- Post added at 23:48 ---------- Previous post was at 23:25 ----------

I don’t know what makes the percentages differ, but there is probably reserved space for software/apps/EPG and the rewind buffer for however many channels are running in the background.

Also how they calculate megabytes and above (one million or 1024*1024 bytes, which carries on into gigabytes).

Then how it applies rounding.

It’s only supposed to be a guide to help clear recordings and make space. The margin of error makes meaningful and accurate comparisons pointless.

OLD BOY · 22-09-2018, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider999

I would have thought there would be 1 recording of a program in the cloud with some way of finding it stored on your V6. Possibly a marker with the cloud address?.

Seriously doubt each person will have their own mini-cloud with recordings just for them - that would end up with an infinite amount of space being required.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------

Why not just offer 2Tb or 4Tb V6 boxes? There was originally supposed to be a 2Tb option, this was quietly dropped by Virgin.

Yes, it's more a bookmark than a recording by the individual.

The reason cloud recording might be preferable to VM is that it would be cheaper for STBs not to include a recording function. Broadcasters would prsfer access to the cloud so they could control and monetise their shows.

muppetman11 · 22-09-2018, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozsat

The 'available to play' should be based on your download speed.

It does some calculation to ensure you can't start playing it until it knows you will not catch up with how far it has downloaded.

I find UHD series (up to one hour) are available in a few second.

My experience is pretty much the same with a 76/20 FTTC connection.

jfman · 22-09-2018, 11:17

It took minutes to wait for HD for me when I had Sky Q. The point is that on demand/cloud over cable wouldn’t rely on variability of internet speeds.

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Broadcasters would prsfer access to the cloud so they could control and monetise their shows.

Except they wouldn’t, Liberty would be setting the package prices and bundling it all together. Individual broadcasters and content providers would have less control than going it alone with their own apps and subscription services.

ozsat · 22-09-2018, 11:19

A slow internet speed will mean slow downloading from 'the cloud' even if on cable.

Some users have slow cable speeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

It took minutes to wait for HD for me when I had Sky Q. The point is that on demand/cloud over cable wouldn’t rely on variability of internet speeds.

muppetman11 · 22-09-2018, 11:22

There have been many documented problems with On Demand over Virgin in fact lots and lots.

jfman · 22-09-2018, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozsat

How is you content on 'the cloud' going to get to your box if it is not on the Internet?

A slow internet speed will mean slow downloading from 'the cloud' even if on cable.

Some users have slow cable speeds.

Liberty could provide the content over DVB-C as with current on demand content.

Average speeds on cable are higher than non-cable fibre products, if they did opt for delivery over the internet.

---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetman11

There have been many documented problems with On Demand over Virgin in fact lots and lots.

I’ve never had any issues.