Brexit discussion

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Dave42

but the Brextremists will tell you that's all the EU's fault our government don't know what it wants

Nailed it. The Government could easily have published its paper on the Ireland of Island before the EU. Instead, it's waited for the EU to publish its one and then said it's unsatisfactory. Doh! The UK's the one leaving so should be coming up with the ideas.

[richard s]

Too right!!

[denphone]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nailed it. The Government could easily have published its paper on the Ireland of Island before the EU. Instead, it's waited for the EU to publish its one and then said it's unsatisfactory. Doh! The UK's the one leaving so should be coming up with the ideas.

Clueless and rudderless springs to mind...

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nailed it. The Government could easily have published its paper on the Ireland of Island before the EU. Instead, it's waited for the EU to publish its one and then said it's unsatisfactory. Doh! The UK's the one leaving so should be coming up with the ideas.

The NI only became an issue for some Remainers so they attempt to use it to scupper Brexit. Not going to happen, simple solutions have been put forward, it’s not rocket science.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nailed it. The Government could easily have published its paper on the Ireland of Island before the EU. Instead, it's waited for the EU to publish its one and then said it's unsatisfactory. Doh! The UK's the one leaving so should be coming up with the ideas.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

lol, my bad

[richard s]

The only rocket science we need is to stick rockets up the TORIES **** and send them all into space.

"Tories".

Plural, not possessive.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Mick

The NI only became an issue for some Remainers so they attempt to use it to scupper Brexit. Not going to happen, simple solutions have been put forward, it’s not rocket science.

it not just a remainer issue it one of biggest issues with brexit and no one brextremist as come up with a answer

[1andrew1]

Ireland is a genuinely big issue.

The first two solutions below have been viewed as unlikely leaving the fall-back option c).
The problem with option c) is that it either commits the whole of the UK to a customs union which Theresa May has ruled out or it commits to a customs union for NI only and a hard border between NI and GB. Theresa May has ruled this out as well.

a) Rich free trade agreement which would remove the Irish border issue will take years to negotiate.
b) Technological solutions - described by the EU as magical thinking.
c) "the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 (Good Friday) Agreement".

Brextremists may argue that it is Ireland that erects a hard border, but if there's no customs union in Ireland that's mandated by their beloved WTO rules.

More info here https://news.sky.com/story/no-bluff-...waves-11270995

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:36 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Clueless and rudderless springs to mind...

Great comment in the FT from a reader on how the UK could have handled Brexit. Whatever you think about Brexit, this sounds like a winning approach.

The Pouca In very simple terms - here is what the UK should have done in these negotiations.

First, find a way to mute cretins like Boorish Johnson.
Second, come up with an outline set of terms that it thinks it could live with (without by the way announcing any 'Redlines.')
Third, draft a version of a Brexit withdrawal agreement.
Fourth, make sure that, on pain of total exile, every Conservative worth mentioning was quietly on board.
Fifth, submit the Article 50 notice - and the next day release the UK's detailed proposal and its draft of the agreement.

This is the way any intelligent negotiator would approach these things - make sure that before you start negotiations you have clearly worked out what you are asking for, and you have left no hostages (i.e., red lines) out there. It is negotiation 101.

Instead, the UK has presented an unedifying display of squabbling, internal posturing - promises made (in December) and now seems to be
proposing to renege on, while never in fact advancing any detailed and viable proposals of its own. Already in a weak position, it has effectively conceded all control over the terms of the agreement to the EU, because it cannot find a way to advance any proposal of its own that consists of more than a few hortatory slogans.

https://www.ft.com/content/51397a80-...a-43db76e69936

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

which means what exactly??

No one knows. Even the govt,. is still having meetings/arguments with itself to try and find out. No wonder the EU is confused by our negotiating position, our ministers are saying different things on different days !

It means we leave the EU.

It means we leave the single market.

It means we leave the customs union.

The negotiations are about how we achieve those things, which is the detail the government is about to submit to the EU, to amend the dog's dinner the EU Commission have made in their document.

We are looking for a trade and services deal giving us tariff free access to EU markets, incorporating a customs agreement to achieve just that.

There will be no more free movement of people and we will be free of EU legislation.

That's about it. We've all heard this already, so I don't know why remainers are feigning this confusion.

Brexit means Brexit, and that's it.

---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Oh I don't know, he likes cricket so can't be that bad

John Major also likes warm beer, which makes him a bit weird in my book.

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

And he talks more common sense then this current lot who have no clue which way they are travelling and are led by a weak incapacitated leader who cannot lead strongly but is being led by others.

Tell yourself that if you like, Den, but you're just following the herd with this.

The government are putting their proposals to the EU this week. Leaving it until now to put these cards on the table is a deliberate negotiating tactic. Better to let the EU tell us how they see it first, so we can pull it to bits than have them pull ours to bits. Our negotiating team will show the problems with the EU stance and we will correct it and polish it with our proposals.

This was the correct way to do it. Had we put our document out first, they would have torn it to pieces without having any sensible proposals of their own. This year, you will start to see everything coming together and there will be egg on the faces of all those who said it couldn't be done.

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Well he, along with every living Prime Minister, including Theresa, campaigned to remain in the EU. They must know something about how our trade works. Ever since the vote our Govt. has been in chaos.

I can't speak for Theresa, but I would imagine that she hoped to reform the EU from within, but the public were not prepared to wait that long. Cameron's gambit to get that reform failed spectacularly, and that did it for me and I think for everyone who voted Leave.

Theresa is bowing to the will of the electorate, and surely that is why we expect referendum results to be honoured.

[arcimedes]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Brexit means Brexit, and that's it.

The standard fall back of the brexiter. They dont seem to get it that everyone has a different interpretation of brexit.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nailed it. The Government could easily have published its paper on the Ireland of Island before the EU. Instead, it's waited for the EU to publish its one and then said it's unsatisfactory. Doh! The UK's the one leaving so should be coming up with the ideas.

Yes, we all know you would have preferred the UK to go first. That's what the EU wanted too. Now we can see what is proposed by them, there will be political pressure to sort out the NI/ Ireland situation, and ooh, look! The UK has a solution. The EU will then grasp that to avoid more problems in Northern Ireland.

Our government is well aware of EU tactics and has waited until they can see the whites of the EU's eyes.

Well done, Theresa!

---------- Post added at 10:48 ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Clueless and rudderless springs to mind...

It's called tactics, Den.

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 ----------

Originally Posted by richard s

The only rocket science we need is to stick rockets up the TORIES **** and send them all into space.

So that's your answer, is it, Richard?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

"Tories".

Plural, not possessive.

So the Tories don't possess an ****?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Dave42

it not just a remainer issue it one of biggest issues with brexit and no one brextremist as come up with a answer

There is an answer, as you will see shortly. It's already been hinted at, but obviously the government is going to have to spell this out to some people one syllable at a time for it to sink in.