Russia has invaded Ukraine - Page 123

pip08456 · 13-09-2022, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Interesting article in the NY times about the background and planning for the latest Ukrainian offensives.

https://t.co/w9ieVNZnQn (Shouldn’t be behind paywall)

Thanks for that Hugh. Interesting indeed and not paywalled.

1andrew1 · 14-09-2022, 14:14

A stunning claim.

Quote:

Reuters: Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...source=twitter

**Chris** · 14-09-2022, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

A stunning claim.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...source=twitter

Sad but unsurprising. This war was never motivated by realpolitik, but Putin’s quasi-messianic urge to reunite the peoples of greater Russia under one banner.

**Damien** · 14-09-2022, 15:16

Still makes the 'NATO DID THIS' crowd look even more moronic than they already were

1andrew1 · 14-09-2022, 16:59

Great 10-minute video from The Guardian's correspondent here. Includes some interesting history from centuries ago.
Why is Vladimir Putin so obsessed with Ukraine?

pip08456 · 20-09-2022, 11:01

Erdogan: 'Lands which were invaded will be returned to Ukraine'

I'll believe this when I see it.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-fee...200-po-ws-swap

**Chris** · 20-09-2022, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

Erdogan: 'Lands which were invaded will be returned to Ukraine'

I'll believe this when I see it.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-fee...200-po-ws-swap

I’m highly sceptical that Putin would negotiate away Crimea. I’m less sceptical that he’s at least open to negotiations because his army (not really an army, more a murderous rabble) is getting its ars3 handed to it on the battlefield at the moment.

However, I am pretty confident that within the next 12 months Ukraine will retake Crimea by force. And no, that won’t result in a nuclear exchange, and Western commentators should really stop doing Putin’s nuclear terror psy-ops for him by opining otherwise.

**Damien** · 20-09-2022, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I’m highly sceptical that Putin would negotiate away Crimea. I’m less sceptical that he’s at least open to negotiations because his army (not really an army, more a murderous rabble) is getting its ars3 handed to it on the battlefield at the moment.

However, I am pretty confident that within the next 12 months Ukraine will retake Crimea by force. And no, that won’t result in a nuclear exchange, and Western commentators should really stop doing Putin’s nuclear terror psy-ops for him by opining otherwise.

Russia could go into total-war mode. Might be damaging for him domestically but Russia might just throw more and more people at Ukraine.

**Chris** · 20-09-2022, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Russia could go into total-war mode. Might be damaging for him domestically but Russia might just throw more and more people at Ukraine.

To what end? Surely you must see by now that the myth has been busted. Russia is not the second military power in the world. It is a third rate power that has spent a ton of money on equipment it doesn’t know how to use, and doesn’t even work reliably when they do use it.

It is incapable of manoeuvre; it is incapable of combined arms operations. If (and it’s a mighty big if) Putin declared war and general mobilisation, all he would achieve would be to send larger numbers of inadequately trained and equipped Russians to die, wherever the front line happened to be at that time.

Russia took many weeks to claim the ground Ukraine took back in just days, because once Ukraine was suitably equipped it had the willingness and the strategy to use it effectively.

1andrew1 · 20-09-2022, 12:53

I think the saying that sums it up is that Russia's gone from being seen as the second strongest army in the World to being seen as the second strongest army in Ukraine.

Moving from war to special operation would be Putin's final throw of the dice to try and save his position. I don't think it would work but we're not dealing with a rational actor here.

papa smurf · 20-09-2022, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Russia could go into total-war mode. Might be damaging for him domestically but Russia might just throw more and more people at Ukraine.

This war is lost, no point in getting more young Russians killed, they should pack up and go home while it's an option.

Pierre · 20-09-2022, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

This war is lost, no point in getting more young Russians killed, they should pack up and go home while it's an option.

not going to happen.

The Ukraine offensive is just another chapter in this conflict, it's not the end nor the beginning of the end. This will continue well into next year, if Putin is still in charge.

**Paul** · 20-09-2022, 16:53

The only thing that will end this war any time soon is if the russian generals decide they have had enough, and remove him.

**Mick** · 20-09-2022, 18:01

BREAKING: Vladimir Putin expected to address Russia at 6pm tonight (Imminently). The Russian leader will reportedly give a rare address to the nation this evening. The last time he gave a live address was on 24 February, when Russia invaded Ukraine.

He is expected to introduce a new martial law and impose further military conscription mobilisation. - Sky News.

papa smurf · 20-09-2022, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

BREAKING: Vladimir Putin expected to address Russia at 6pm tonight (Imminently). The Russian leader will reportedly give a rare address to the nation this evening. The last time he gave a live address was on 24 February, when Russia invaded Ukraine.

He is expected to introduce a new martial law and impose further military conscription mobilisation. - Sky News.

And here comes the uprising