Britain outside the EU - Page 172

Carth · 23-09-2021, 18:52

Far too sensible

2/10

Mad Max · 23-09-2021, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

Surely if the driver shortage is due to brexit then the EU would have no shortages. If EU shortages are less than 100,000 then the alledged shortage here due to EU drivers returning home would have filled those vacancies in the EU.

1andrew1 · 23-09-2021, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

What would you suggest we do instead of a capitalist society ?

To add, European countries don’t have the same level of shortages as we do, and they operate in a similar if not the same way regarding pay and conditions (albeit truck stops on the French autoroutes are far far superior to ours for example)

Gotta feel a bit sorry for the Brexiters on the thread tonight. More triggers for them here than an Only Fools and Horses boxset.

jfman · 23-09-2021, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

Surely if the driver shortage is due to brexit then the EU would have no shortages. If EU shortages are less than 100,000 then the alledged shortage here due to EU drivers returning home would have filled those vacancies in the EU.

And if EU shortages were more than 100,000 they could all go home, the UK be affected and the EU still have shortages.

It’s not necessarily binary. But if migrants are flooding over the channel to claim benefits as the right wing press suggest I’d imagine the odd one or two would drive lorries for the minimum wage while sleeping in the cab, posting home their wages to and eastern European shanty town with their tax credits and child benefit.

Pierre · 23-09-2021, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Gotta feel a bit sorry for the Brexiters on the thread tonight. More triggers for them here than an Only Fools and Horses boxset.

Why would you feel sorry for them? They got what they wanted.

1andrew1 · 23-09-2021, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

Why would you feel sorry for them? They got what they wanted.

They wanted a trade deal with the US which Johnson said would be easy. Instead they're discussing empty shelves and HGV driver shortages.

Pierre · 23-09-2021, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

They wanted a trade deal with the US which Johnson said would be easy. Instead they're discussing empty shelves and HGV driver shortages.

No, they wanted to leave the EU.

1andrew1 · 23-09-2021, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

No, they wanted to leave the EU.

They're not mutually exclusive.

Pierre · 23-09-2021, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

They're not mutually exclusive.

Well you are projecting what you think they wanted into your argument. At any point where you say what “they” wanted is pure speculation on your behalf.

The only concrete and irrefutable conclusion from the referendum is that the U.K. population was asked if they want to leave the E.U. And they said yes.

That is it.

Anything else is conjecture, speculation, and any other similar word.

**Chris** · 23-09-2021, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Gotta feel a bit sorry for the Brexiters on the thread tonight. More triggers for them here than an Only Fools and Horses boxset.

Not sure why you think this … it’s as if you’ve blanked everything we’ve been saying to you for the last 5 years.

Brexit is, and always has been, about fundamental changes in the way British laws are made and democratic accountability is ensured. Sure, for some people the symptoms of those things were what energised them to vote leave, rather than the principles themselves, but that’s fine with us because when it came to it, the democratic deficit became intolerable, as we knew it would. If something can’t continue, it won’t. That’s the irresistible gravitational force of politics. Brexit was always inevitable sooner or later.

In the face of that, Remainers never were able to muster a compelling philosophical argument in favour of the European Union. All their energy was expended on trying to use the likely short term difficulties of extricating ourselves from it to scare people, ultimately to little effect. In the event, the sky hasn’t fallen in and life has gone on. Remainers have been left with egg on their faces, and with a compulsive need to haunt forums like this, trumping up every little thing they read in the Grauniad and the “Independent” into a calamity, such is the gnawing fear that they (whisper it) might have been wrong.

Meanwhile, the first fruits of Brexit appear, as businesses accustomed to undercutting British wages with short-term east European imported labour discover that no, they really aren’t going to get away with that any longer. Sure it will mess their plans up this year and maybe next, but guess what … the 40 years we were in the EU were the aberration, not the 40 before that and not the 40 yet to come.

Stop cutting yourself up over it. Everything’s going to be just fine.

1andrew1 · 23-09-2021, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well you are projecting what you think they wanted into your argument. At any point where you say what “they” wanted is pure speculation on your behalf.

The only concrete and irrefutable conclusion from the referendum is that the U.K. population was asked if they want to leave the E.U. And they said yes.

That is it.

Anything else is conjecture, speculation, and any other similar word.

No projection from me, plenty of sources state it.

Sephiroth · 23-09-2021, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Indeed, nice innit ??

Travelling across France, Germany & Austria a couple of years ago on the bike and the difference in roads and services between the U.K. and those countries is night and day.

Yep. Try getting a Schnitzel or something as tasty at Newport Pagnell Services.

1andrew1 · 23-09-2021, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Not sure why you think this … it’s as if you’ve blanked everything we’ve been saying to you for the last 5 years.

Brexit is, and always has been, about fundamental changes in the way British laws are made and democratic accountability is ensured. Sure, for some people the symptoms of those things were what energised them to vote leave, rather than the principles themselves, but that’s fine with us because when it came to it, the democratic deficit became intolerable, as we knew it would. If something can’t continue, it won’t. That’s the irresistible gravitational force of politics. Brexit was always inevitable sooner or later.

In the face of that, Remainers never were able to muster a compelling philosophical argument in favour of the European Union. All their energy was expended on trying to use the likely short term difficulties of extricating ourselves from it to scare people, ultimately to little effect. In the event, the sky hasn’t fallen in and life has gone on. Remainers have been left with egg on their faces, and with a compulsive need to haunt forums like this, trumping up every little thing they read in the Grauniad and the “Independent” into a calamity, such is the gnawing fear that they (whisper it) might have been wrong.

Meanwhile, the first fruits of Brexit appear, as businesses accustomed to undercutting British wages with short-term east European imported labour discover that no, they really aren’t going to get away with that any longer. Sure it will mess their plans up this year and maybe next, but guess what … the 40 years we were in the EU were the aberration, not the 40 before that and not the 40 yet to come.

Stop cutting yourself up over it. Everything’s going to be just fine.

If things were fine then the government would be taking back control and checking imports and implementing the NI protocol. Clearly, things aren't and this list of what we're short of many months after we left the EU would give any PM sleepless nights.

If there was genuine concern about wages then the government could have raised the minimum wage. This would ensure that everyone's wages were reasonable. not just in-demand jobs.

TheDaddy · 23-09-2021, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Meanwhile, the first fruits of Brexit appear, as businesses accustomed to undercutting British wages with short-term east European imported labour discover that no, they really aren’t going to get away with that any longer. Sure it will mess their plans up this year and maybe next, but guess what … the 40 years we were in the EU were the aberration, not the 40 before that and not the 40 yet to come.

Stop cutting yourself up over it. Everything’s going to be just fine.

I'm interested in this part, what do you think will happen now they can't undercut British wages with cheap imported labour? I remember banging on relentlessly about this 15+ years ago and no one seemed to care back then.

**Chris** · 23-09-2021, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If things were fine then the government would be taking back control and checking imports and implementing the NI protocol. Clearly, things aren't and this list of what we're short of many months after we left the EU would give any PM sleepless nights.

If there was genuine concern about wages then the government could have raised the minimum wage. This would ensure that everyone's wages were reasonable. not just in-demand jobs.

Wow … you’re adding economic illiteracy to your short termism? Talk about doubling down.

I’m not even going to start on how raising the minimum wage across the entire economy in order to address problems in small parts of it (not all of which are even close to paying minimum wage) is complete loony tunes.