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Posts: 11,955
Re: British culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Your assertion re football makes no sense in the context of your perfectly fine definition of culture.
<SNIP>
I'm beginning to think you've argued yourself into a corner and haven't quite worked out how to get out of it.
No - at no time have I felt painted into a corner. It's so blindingly obvious that football is a widely shared interest and not specifically part of our culture. Nor is stamp collecting, photography etc.
You've linked the "values of our culture" to the rather narrow teamwork involved in competition. You could say that about Poker, Bridge, tennis doubles, rugby. Nothing at all to do with culture.
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Re: British culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
No - at no time have I felt painted into a corner. It's so blindingly obvious that football is a widely shared interest and not specifically part of our culture. Nor is stamp collecting, photography etc.
You've linked the "values of our culture" to the rather narrow teamwork involved in competition. You could say that about Poker, Bridge, tennis doubles, rugby. Nothing at all to do with culture.
All of those things are expressions of our culture.
No - at no time have I felt painted into a corner. It's so blindingly obvious that football is a widely shared interest and not specifically part of our culture. Nor is stamp collecting, photography etc.
You've linked the "values of our culture" to the rather narrow teamwork involved in competition. You could say that about Poker, Bridge, tennis doubles, rugby. Nothing at all to do with culture.
What is "British culture", in your view?
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Re: British culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
What is "British culture", in your view?
British culture is derived from (non-exhaustive) books, artwork, statues, archaeology, law, taught conventions, taught codes (such as Judeo-Christianity), observed behaviour. It is no surprise to me that in the back of the British head, there would be little disagreement with what I've said.
That’s where it comes from - what are it’s attributes?
For instance, a lot of British architecture is neoclassical - neoclassical is based in Greek and Roman architecture.
You keep using the phrase "Judeo-Christian", but for a lot of Britain’s (and other countries) history, Christians persecuted and disdained Jews - seems strange to base a culture on something that, until recently, we didn’t admire...
Rabbi Jill Jacobs wrote on Twitter that “much of ‘Judeo-Christian’ tradition involves centuries of Christians trying to kill us,” adding, “if you mean ‘not Muslim’ say it.”
The “Judeo-Christian tradition” was one of 20th-century America’s greatest political inventions. An ecumenical marketing meme for combatting godless communism, the catchphrase long did the work of animating American conservatives in the Cold War battle.
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Hold on what are we actually talking about here? Culture has 2 meanings 1 which are objects and 2 ideals . The objects have not changed much seeing as we still have some Roman sites and art and so on but ideals are changing constantly
Hadrian's Wall has no effect on social culture but Adrian deciding she wants to be called Adriana does
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Re: British culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
That’s where it comes from - what are it’s attributes?
For instance, a lot of British architecture is neoclassical - neoclassical is based in Greek and Roman architecture.
You keep using the phrase "Judeo-Christian", but for a lot of Britain’s (and other countries) history, Christians persecuted and disdained Jews - seems strange to base a culture on something that, until recently, we didn’t admire...
You're going way off beam. The evolved Judeo-Christian culture in the UK today centres on the sub-conscious understanding of the the behaviour associated with commandments 4 through 10. Nothing to do with the pogroms, prejudices etc.
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Re: British culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
British culture is derived from (non-exhaustive) books, artwork, statues, archaeology, law, taught conventions, taught codes (such as Judeo-Christianity), observed behaviour. It is no surprise to me that in the back of the British head, there would be little disagreement with what I've said.
If there is disagreement, it'll come out here.
In what sense is it derived from such things? Are you suggesting these are things from which we deduce what our culture is, or are these things whose production generates our culture? Or both?
Warm beer, cricket on a village green and rain. Sometimes all at the same time.
Knowing your place, keeping others in their place, harking back to "the good old times", the Empire...
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Culture has 2 meanings 1 which are objects and 2 ideals .
You're almost there.
Culture has different meanings to different people. Culture is subjective.
There may be things we enjoy today that have a basis in other cultures and countries but in my view that doesn't distract them from being what I consider to be our culture today.
Things we (as a nation) did centuries ago should not necessarily be used to define us today.
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Re: British culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
British culture is derived from (non-exhaustive) books, artwork, statues, archaeology, law, taught conventions, taught codes (such as Judeo-Christianity), observed behaviour. It is no surprise to me that in the back of the British head, there would be little disagreement with what I've said.
If there is disagreement, it'll come out here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
In what sense is it derived from such things? Are you suggesting these are things from which we deduce what our culture is, or are these things whose production generates our culture? Or both?
The latter, Chris. People don't spend their time contemplating the former. That's why I referred to the "back of the British head"; it's in the subconscious, subliminal.
We then look at other cultures, whose behaviours, pronouncements etc differ from ours, and reach a conclusion as to whether or not our culture is under threat.
Some people are very afraid of change, unfortunately for them it's inevitable.
I don’t think it’s fear. I certainly don’t like change. I know in some ways it’s inevitable and I don’t expect things to stop moving on my say-so. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it.
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