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Sir Keirís Kerfuffle
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Old 07-05-2021, 09:40   #601
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Thread re-named ...
Should that read Labour's Kerfuffle?
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Old 07-05-2021, 10:41   #602
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Or Labour’s lambasting? There are any number of ways to describe the utter mess Labour is in after last night. Hartlepool wasn’t just a loss, it was an absolute evisceration.
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Old 07-05-2021, 12:39   #603
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Or Labour’s lambasting? There are any number of ways to describe the utter mess Labour is in after last night. Hartlepool wasn’t just a loss, it was an absolute evisceration.
Interesting comment in the Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...tion-cddx0m9z5
Quote:
But there is also a second reason for the strong Conservative showing — the collapse in support for the Brexit Party.

In 2019 the party’s leader, Richard Tice, came a close third in Hartlepool with 10,603 votes.

Following a rebrand to Reform UK, however, the party picked up a paltry 368 votes.

Early results suggest this pattern has replicated across the country.

The Tories have effectively neutered the threat from parties to their right, while simultaneously bringing in hoards of new voters from the left.

The Hartlepool result tells us that the 2019 general rlection result was not a one-off. It was just the beginning of a huge realignment in British politics that still has some way to go.
The Conservatives have also gained Northumberland County Council and Dudley County Council from NOC.

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

I thought this comment on Twitter was quite apposite.

Quote:
@francesweetman

The Tories’ primary skill is reinventing itself. Labour’s primary problem is that it is stuck romanticising about an era that died with the collapse of manufacturing and the rise of the internet.
And a good reply
Quote:
@jamesasm

Replying to @francesweetman

Bingo. Labour has no representation from legions of gig, online, office & tech workers and businesses. They seem to just not understand them, or not want to. Labour can't win by just appealing to NHS and traditional workers.
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Last edited by Hugh; 07-05-2021 at 12:20.
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Old 07-05-2021, 12:40   #604
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Fundamentally bland centrism has had its day, and did a decent job at the time of holding together the left with enough Tory voters to win few elections society is more polarised now.
It's just Labour that has had it's day. They tried going further to the Left and failed, they tried to bring it back to the centre and are failing.

The Tories are winning in the exLabour heartlands because they're not talking politics, they're talking economy, regeneration and Labour are talking curtains.
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Old 07-05-2021, 13:04   #605
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Interesting comment in the Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...tion-cddx0m9z5

The Conservatives have also gained Northumberland County Council and Dudley County Council from NOC.

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

I thought this comment on Twitter was quite apposite.



And a good reply
Iíve been pondering the extent to which UKIP/Brexit Party has acted as a sort of gateway drug for traditional Labour voters. Once the Labour voting habit is broken, and the reason for the Brexit vote is dealt with, many of them have perhaps taken a pragmatic look at which party best aligns with their views in a way that would have been difficult just 10 years ago.
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Old 07-05-2021, 13:14   #606
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
It's just Labour that has had it's day. They tried going further to the Left and failed, they tried to bring it back to the centre and are failing.

The Tories are winning in the exLabour heartlands because they're not talking politics, they're talking economy, regeneration and Labour are talking curtains.
Yet going further to the left appears more popular than wallowing in the centre. However rather than stay in and water it down Blairite after Blairite undermined the message and week after week the Observer got someone to write about anti-Semitism.

Biden won because he managed to hold together the left and the centre. And wasn't Trump. Labour have made no effort to coalesce around some point left of centre and further left than a Blairite position.

You are right though in that they don't have a message for their former voters. We are only seeing now in England what has happened in Glasgow and Central Scotland over the past ten years.

Last edited by jfman; 07-05-2021 at 13:28.
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Old 07-05-2021, 13:29   #607
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
You are right though in that they don't have a message for their former voters. We are only seeing now in England what has happened in Glasgow and Central Scotland over the past ten years.
Very sage, I think their failure to respond to their decline in Scotland has indeed just spread throughout England,

One option out of it is to somehow double down on of the woke, youth, metropolitan left and see if they can reinvent themselves more along a newer Green/Lib-dem path, but they've lost the working class.
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Old 07-05-2021, 22:10   #608
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Well if the Hartlepool result wasn't a bad enough result for Labour, it appears I've now got a new Conservative councillor.

Wakefield East is one of those council wards where you usually wonder why the other parties even bother, well yesterday things changed. At the last election in 2019 it was a poor showing for Labour winning with only 56.9% of the votes when normally it's well over 60%. Yesterday the Labour candidate managed only 44.5% losing by 48 votes. The remaining 2 Labour councillors in the ward are probably worrying what the future holds for them.

I don't know what the answer is but I know what it isn't and that is letting this country drift in to a one party state (extreme words - but you know what I mean!). Keir comes across as a nice honest chap with good intentions, which is a plus, but his get up and go seems to have got up and gone and he's just got nothing about him. As competence doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for the top job any more, Labour need to find someone who appeals to the masses and makes them laugh and is brazen enough to not feel they're suffering from imposter syndrome.
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Old 07-05-2021, 22:45   #609
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Yet going further to the left appears more popular than wallowing in the centre. However rather than stay in and water it down Blairite after Blairite undermined the message and week after week the Observer got someone to write about anti-Semitism.

Biden won because he managed to hold together the left and the centre. And wasn't Trump. Labour have made no effort to coalesce around some point left of centre and further left than a Blairite position.

You are right though in that they don't have a message for their former voters. We are only seeing now in England what has happened in Glasgow and Central Scotland over the past ten years.
Sir Keir's policy was to have few policies and to focus on the government's handling of the pandemic. Unfortunately for him, after a poor start, the government delivered on solving the pandemic crisis and he didn't have much of a leg to stand on.

His only consolation must be that incumbent parties in the three British nations have performed well, perhaps reflecting the public's satisfaction with the vaccines roll-out even if this success is due more to Kate Bingham's team than anything in the devolved nations.

Overall, I still think "Mind the values gap" nails it - the average British voter is left of centre economically and right of centre socially and the Conservative Party under Boris Johnson is successfully occupying this territory.
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Old 07-05-2021, 22:54   #610
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth View Post
Well if the Hartlepool result wasn't a bad enough result for Labour, it appears I've now got a new Conservative councillor.

Wakefield East is one of those council wards where you usually wonder why the other parties even bother, well yesterday things changed. At the last election in 2019 it was a poor showing for Labour winning with only 56.9% of the votes when normally it's well over 60%. Yesterday the Labour candidate managed only 44.5% losing by 48 votes. The remaining 2 Labour councillors in the ward are probably worrying what the future holds for them.

I don't know what the answer is but I know what it isn't and that is letting this country drift in to a one party state (extreme words - but you know what I mean!). Keir comes across as a nice honest chap with good intentions, which is a plus, but his get up and go seems to have got up and gone and he's just got nothing about him. As competence doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for the top job any more, Labour need to find someone who appeals to the masses and makes them laugh and is brazen enough to not feel they're suffering from imposter syndrome.
You complain about Wakefield East usually being "one of those council wards where you usually wonder why the other parties even bother" and now changing, but then complain about a possible "one-party state. So for you, a "one-party state" is perfectly ok, as long as it's a party you support. You were happy with your local council constantly being ruled by a particular party, and are now unhappy at any suggestion that may no longer be the case.
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Old 07-05-2021, 23:19   #611
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
You complain about Wakefield East usually being "one of those council wards where you usually wonder why the other parties even bother" and now changing, but then complain about a possible "one-party state. So for you, a "one-party state" is perfectly ok, as long as it's a party you support. You were happy with your local council constantly being ruled by a particular party, and are now unhappy at any suggestion that may no longer be the case.
I think youíre extrapolating meaning from his post that isnít there.

One can reasonably hold up a seat (in Parliament or council) as one of those places we wonder why the opposition even bother. We all know these ďsafeĒ seats exist - thereís no purpose in denying they do. Maybe the media froth about them too much but they undoubtedly exist.

Drifting to a ďone partyĒ state is unhealthy regardless of the party. Or is that just Scotland....
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Old 07-05-2021, 23:36   #612
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
You complain about Wakefield East usually being "one of those council wards where you usually wonder why the other parties even bother" and now changing, but then complain about a possible "one-party state. So for you, a "one-party state" is perfectly ok, as long as it's a party you support. You were happy with your local council constantly being ruled by a particular party, and are now unhappy at any suggestion that may no longer be the case.
You couldn't be further from the mark . I don't recall saying if I approved of the Labour monopoly or not in our ward , as is the case in many local council wards the individual councillors are pretty ineffective and I can't see that changing with the new mix of political parties 'representing' the area. I certainly didn't say I was happy with my local council constantly being ruled by one party. One party constantly being in control in my opinion will only lead to laziness and complacency and on a national level would be nothing but bad .

I will say however, that I DO TAKE EXCEPTION with being told what does and doesn't make me happy and what I do and don't like ,
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Old 08-05-2021, 00:08   #613
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth View Post
You couldn't be further from the mark . I don't recall saying if I approved of the Labour monopoly or not in our ward , as is the case in many local council wards the individual councillors are pretty ineffective and I can't see that changing with the new mix of political parties 'representing' the area. I certainly didn't say I was happy with my local council constantly being ruled by one party. One party constantly being in control in my opinion will only lead to laziness and complacency and on a national level would be nothing but bad .

I will say however, that I DO TAKE EXCEPTION with being told what does and doesn't make me happy and what I do and don't like ,
You said "I don't know what the answer is but I know what it isn't and that is letting this country drift in to a one party state". Answer to what? Labour losing seats. Drifting implies a change, a change from Labour winning seats to Labour losing them. So from your own post, you are unhappy with Labour losing seats, and want an answer to that "problem". For the "problem" to go away would mean Labour winning seats. Asking "I don't know how Labour think they are going to stop losing seats", might be considered not to be taking sides.

If you consider that your local council is lazy and complacent, then shouldn't you be welcoming Labour losing council seats, although it won't make any difference.
Wakefield Express

Quote:
With six seats still to be declared tonight, Labour currently has 43 of the council's 63 seats. The Conservatives have 15 and the Liberal Democrats have two.
If I've got things right, then before the vote, Labour already had a majority with 33 seats. They couldn't be voted out.
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Old 08-05-2021, 00:38   #614
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
You said "I don't know what the answer is but I know what it isn't and that is letting this country drift in to a one party state". Answer to what? Labour losing seats. Drifting implies a change, a change from Labour winning seats to Labour losing them. So from your own post, you are unhappy with Labour losing seats, and want an answer to that "problem". For the "problem" to go away would mean Labour winning seats. Asking "I don't know how Labour think they are going to stop losing seats", might be considered not to be taking sides.

If you consider that your local council is lazy and complacent, then shouldn't you be welcoming Labour losing council seats, although it won't make any difference.
Wakefield Express

If I've got things right, then before the vote, Labour already had a majority with 33 seats. They couldn't be voted out.
Well that's assumption for you . The 'I don't know what the answer is' comment was referring to the thread's (new) title. I don't know what the answer is to stop the issues Labour are having but I do know carry on as they are doing isn't. I'm really not that bothered either way who wins or loses because with the political mediocrity we have I've not felt in my adult lifetime that there's been a government that has completely represented my views.

I don't necessarily think our local council is lazy or complacent - that's just you telling me what I think again. At the moment we have a system where central government can and does step in when a local authority is deemed to be failing. Would they do it to a local council controlled by the same party as the government? Maybe we'll find out the way we're going.
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:59   #615
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Re: Sir Keirís Kerfuffle

Must be nice to live in a town where the council does change hands from time to time. It must keep local politicians on their toes. Never happened in Gosport since it’s inception as a political ward.
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