Brexit (Old)

[heero_yuy]

Seems May's surrender plan went down like a cup of cold sick with the grass roots:

Quote from the Sun:


Theresa May’s Brexit blueprint was given a “thorough trashing” by Tory grassroots activists.

Up to 80 constituency chiefs gave the PM’s senior aides a piece of their mind when they were invited to 10 Downing Street to have the plan explained to them by chief of staff Gavin Barwell and party chairman Brandon Lewis.

One said: “It was very tense throughout the presentation but once it was finished all hell broke loose.

“There were cries of betrayal and snorts of derision. People were volubly angry.

"It was clear nobody likes this plan and nobody was falling for the spin.”

Maybot's going on a charm offensive over the summer break. That'll work well.

[ianch99]

Mrs May does, it seems, have few friends. She seems incapable of answering a simple worked example of her new arrangements when questioned before a Commons committee.

Remember this is her plan, the one that solves the EU trade riddle. The Remain supporting Guardian and the right of centre Brexit supporting Express both are oddly aligned:

May struggles to explain customs plan in grilling by senior MPs

May on the ropes: Bewildered PM sounds CONFUSED AND BAFFLED in brutal Brexit grilling

If she cannot explain how a simple example can work, what hope the rest of us!

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Mrs May does, it seems, have few friends. She seems incapable of answering a simple worked example of her new arrangements when questioned before a Commons committee.

Remember this is her plan, the one that solves the EU trade riddle. The Remain supporting Guardian and the right of centre Brexit supporting Express both are oddly aligned:

May struggles to explain customs plan in grilling by senior MPs

May on the ropes: Bewildered PM sounds CONFUSED AND BAFFLED in brutal Brexit grilling

If she cannot explain how a simple example can work, what hope the rest of us!

Does seem this plan pleases nobody, and is unworkable. At least she had a go but it's an impossible task. Brexit doesn't work, whichever way you look at it. Not too late for some to swallow their pride admit it, and work together for the good of the country rather than themselves. John Major was good on the TV this morning encouraging politicians to think of people and the effect this will have on them first.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Mrs May does, it seems, have few friends. She seems incapable of answering a simple worked example of her new arrangements when questioned before a Commons committee.

Remember this is her plan, the one that solves the EU trade riddle. The Remain supporting Guardian and the right of centre Brexit supporting Express both are oddly aligned:

May struggles to explain customs plan in grilling by senior MPs

May on the ropes: Bewildered PM sounds CONFUSED AND BAFFLED in brutal Brexit grilling

If she cannot explain how a simple example can work, what hope the rest of us!

Poor Yvette. She's not the brightest candle on the cake, is she? But boy, is she loud!

She doesn't seem to grasp that this is a negotiation and that the details have to be discussed with the EU. She's not the only one who doesn't get it, though.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Poor Yvette. She's not the brightest candle on the cake, is she? But boy, is she loud!

She doesn't seem to grasp that this is a negotiation and that the details have to be discussed with the EU. She's not the only one who doesn't get it, though.

You obviously get it then. How does Yvette's example work then?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You obviously get it then. How does Yvette's example work then?

Theresa May said that the specific detail needed to be worked out, but as I said, this is a negotiation. When you are conducting negotiations, you leave certain doors ajar so that there is wriggle room and neither side gets entrenched with one particular solution.

People are angry because this has taken a long time and they still cannot work out how this will be implemented. However, by October, there will be clarity.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Theresa May said that the specific detail needed to be worked out, but as I said, this is a negotiation. When you are conducting negotiations, you leave certain doors ajar so that there is wriggle room and neither side gets entrenched with one particular solution.

People are angry because this has taken a long time and they still cannot work out how this will be implemented. However, by October, there will be clarity.

OB, less of the Faith & Hope! Let's just be practical here: Mrs May came up with a concrete plan. A plan that will square the circle of trade with the EU. A plan, by definition, has to be workable in the real world else it is not a plan, it is just a claim. If Mrs May is selling the Chequers plan, it has to work. It really is as simple as that.

I have to admire your faith in the PM. I mean saying that "specific detail needed to be worked out" with the "specific detail" being whether is is workable or not, is madness.

Imagine:

UK: Here's my plan I have been working on for 2 yrs, it is the best we can do and it can work. What do you think?

EU: Thanks, lots of pages, nice ... One thing, can you show us how the trade revenues will be collected? Just a simple, basic example will do, nothing tricky. Just something to demonstrate what you have in mind. You know, a worked example for illustration ..

UK: Ah .. though you might ask us that. Well, I cannot give you an actual worked example because we haven't got that far. But as an idea, what do you think? Can we just tick this one off?

EU: Nice try .. more cake?

[Sephiroth]

UK: Right - we've had enough of your intransigence and determination to punish the UK. If you can't give reasonable ground, then you can kiss the £39 billion goodbye.

EU: But you've agreed already to the £39 billion. You can't go back on that.

UK: That was when we, like the fools we are, thought that you were going to be reasonable.

EU: If that's now your game, we'll put a border up between our lovely Irish country and your crappy Northern Ireland. We'll insist on visas for your horrible people to visit Europe. We'll deprive you of our wonderful BMW and Mercedes cars not to mention our emission cheating VWs and Audis. Our beautiful French citizens can do without your shitty lamb and we'll put up our taxes to cover your lousy £39 billion.

UK: Of course. BAU.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You obviously get it then. How does Yvette's example work then?

If Theresa May can't explain how it works then I doubt anyone on the forum can! What a bizarre way to negotiate; if you can't explain how your position works then how on earth do you expect anyone to buy into it?

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

UK: Right - we've had enough of your intransigence and determination to punish the UK. If you can't give reasonable ground, then you can kiss the £39 billion goodbye.

lol. No British politician would be quite that daft as breaking our committed obligations would put us to the back of every queue for trade deals anywhere in the world. But obviously, there's something to be flexed in terms of promptness of payment.

[papa smurf]

[QUOTE=1andrew1;35956184]If Theresa May can't explain how it works then I doubt anyone on the forum can! What a bizarre way to negotiate; if you can't explain how your position works then how on earth do you expect anyone to buy into it?[COLOR="Silver"]

It's written quite clearly in the missing text on the missing page ,it'll probably turn up in the back of a taxi after brexit .

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

UK: Right - we've had enough of your intransigence and determination to punish the UK. If you can't give reasonable ground, then you can kiss the £39 billion goodbye.

Again. We've barely given them anything to refuse. If we can't agree what our demands are going to be how can the EU reject them?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

Again. We've barely given them anything to refuse. If we can't agree what our demands are going to be how can the EU reject them?

Two points:

1/
They are already rejecting what's in the White Paper. That's whether or not the MPs are in agreement.

2/
The EU has not negotiated with us in good faith. They have artificialized the Irish border as a ploy to keep us in the CU/SM.

We should now toughen our stance.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Two points:

1/
They are already rejecting what's in the White Paper. That's whether or not the MPs are in agreement.

2/
The EU has not negotiated with us in good faith. They have artificialized the Irish border as a ploy to keep us in the CU/SM.

We should now toughen our stance.

we be only country in world with 0 trade deals how big a cliff you want to jump off

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]Two points:

1/
They are already rejecting what's in the White Paper. That's whether or not the MPs are in agreement.

Well it is a negotiation. However it's not as if we've been at this for months and keep saying No. They've had it for just under two weeks. It's a bit early to be throwing our toys out of the pram about how difficult they're being.

The EU has not negotiated with us in good faith. They have artificialized the Irish border as a ploy to keep us in the CU/SM.

We should now toughen our stance.

The Irish border was identified as an issue before the referendum. Just because Vote Leave ignored it as an issue doesn't mean it's come from nowhere.

If you're out of the customs union you need customs checks and that requires some form of infrastructure because the magical border camera technology doesn't exist yet.

Everyone says this is easy but what's the answer to it?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

The Irish border was identified as an issue before the referendum. Just because Vote Leave ignored it as an issue doesn't mean it's come from nowhere.

If you're out of the customs union you need customs checks and that requires some form of infrastructure because the magical border camera technology doesn't exist yet.

Everyone says this is easy but what's the answer to it?

It's an inconvenient truth which technology, blind faith or bluster won't solve.