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Old 13-11-2018, 21:39   #2941
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
l am not labelling it as l am just pointing out what the definition of Brexit means to different people OB whether its in the government or in the country.
Leavers expected us to leave the EU, no half measures. All this nonsense about whether voters wanted only half measures is just silly.

If we have a text which gives us back our sovereignty, stops free movement, ends the customs union and gives us back control of our agriculture and fisheries after the relatively brief transition period, I shall be very happy, as will most people who voted leave.
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Old 13-11-2018, 21:40   #2942
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
That's at the heart of the issue. The Government should have negotiated a withdrawal deal with the EU before offering people a vote. Then people wouldn't have had to vote blindly and we wouldn't have such splits in the Government.
This is not some cosy philosophical chat over a few ports in Eton, it's about the future of the UK, its inhabitants and citizens.
exactly
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Old 13-11-2018, 21:41   #2943
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Do what's the definition of omnishambles ? Brexit?
l am just pointing that if the cabinet is quite clearly split on Brexit how on earth are you going to agree a deal that is acceptable to all in that cabinet.
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Old 13-11-2018, 21:51   #2944
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Re: Brexit

Rumour circulating that she's going try and buy Labours votes by promising a General Election. She can't rely on her own party.
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Old 13-11-2018, 21:53   #2945
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Leavers expected us to leave the EU, no half measures. All this nonsense about whether voters wanted only half measures is just silly.
Therein lies the problem. Many of the key leavers suggested otherwise. Here's a reminder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY
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Old 13-11-2018, 21:56   #2946
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Therein lies the problem. Many of the key leavers suggested otherwise. Here's a reminder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY
wating for the normal project fear cry oh wait

Last edited by Dave42; 13-11-2018 at 22:00.
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Old 13-11-2018, 21:56   #2947
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
You have a very strange idea of democracy, not elected by the people! Being elected by the establishment doesn’t cut it i’m afraid.



The commission are the law makers, the parliament gets to debate it.

Our own unelected chamber is at least only there for oversight! They cannot make or propose any laws. The EU model is not compatible with proper Democracy
The Parliament gets to debate, amend and veto it along with the council. The commission cannot pass laws except under very specific circumstances (Technical laws) The Ordinary Legislative Procedure has the full scrutiny of direct or indirectly elected representatives. In addition, the council and parliament can suggest laws to the commission.

But we have has this discussion many times and it seems that because the way the EU does things is different, it is wrong even though our government along with all the others at the time approved it in the Maastricht Treaty and beyond.
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Old 13-11-2018, 22:32   #2948
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Robert Mueller is seeking more information about Nigel Farage for his investigation into Russian interference in US politics, according to a target of the inquiry who expects to be criminally charged.
Jerome Corsi, a conservative author, said prosecutors working for Mueller questioned him about Farage, the key campaigner behind Britain’s vote to leave the European Union, two weeks ago in Washington.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...me-corsi-claim
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Old 13-11-2018, 22:52   #2949
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Because the definition of Brexit for some is very much different to the definition of Brexit for someone else hence the omnishambles of the last 2 years.
The hard leavers take the vote literally, yet the leave campaign was anything but.

As someone pointed out on News Night, 17+ million do not speak for the whole population, no matter how often this is repeated.
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Old 13-11-2018, 23:09   #2950
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
The hard leavers take the vote literally, yet the leave campaign was anything but.

As someone pointed out on News Night, 17+ million do not speak for the whole population, no matter how often this is repeated.
No such thing as a hard leaver.

The question on the ballot paper wasn't...

"Do you want to leave the EU hard?"

As for the rest of your post - yet again - it's one sided rubbish with you.

The Remain campaign played by the same rules, in other words they took the referendum literally too and also LIED!!!

Guess what - that person on News Night is talking utter bollocks, as I keep telling you and it will continue to be repeated, as it is fact - you cannot keep bringing "Whole population" argument in to this, it is irrelevant, those who did not vote, could not be arsed to vote, do not count afterwards.

You really do need to stop bringing this weak and pathetic argument up every other day, it is misleading and highly irrelevant.

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Don't pollute this thread with bollocks about Robert Mueller who holds absolutely no jurisdiction on UK Affairs or matters or indeed Brexit.
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Old 13-11-2018, 23:17   #2951
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
No such thing as a hard leaver.

The question on the ballot paper wasn't...

"Do you want to leave the EU hard?"

As for the rest of your post - yet again - it's one sided rubbish with you.

The Remain campaign played by the same rules, in other words they took the referendum literally too and also LIED!!!

Guess what - that person on News Night is talking utter bollocks, as I keep telling you and it will continue to be repeated, as it is fact - you cannot keep bringing "Whole population" argument in to this, it is irrelevant, those who did not vote, could not be arsed to vote, do not count afterwards.

You really do need to stop bringing this weak and pathetic argument up every other day, it is misleading and highly irrelevant.

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------



Don't pollute this thread with bollocks about Robert Mueller who holds absolutely no jurisdiction on UK Affairs or matters or indeed Brexit.
Calling a point weak, does not address the problem of a deeply divided country that has seen the problems being laid in leaving the EU. Things are not simplistically black or white, but shades of grey.

I do not want a cliff edge departure, but this is what looks most likely.
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Old 13-11-2018, 23:21   #2952
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
Calling a point weak, does not address the problem of a deeply divided country that has seen the problems being laid in leaving the EU.

I do not want a cliff edge departure, but this is what looks most likely.
But it is weak as an argument by yourself as a means to stop the Democratic decision.

Cliff edge, what's a Cliff edge ?

It's only language used to by Remainers with their project fear rubbish, I do not recognise such language.

Democracy must prevail and that does not mean holding several referendums on the same issue again and again.
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Old 13-11-2018, 23:46   #2953
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Re: Brexit

Lots of reader comments on the FT about the deal. This sums them up.
Quote:
And like that, the Remainers are proven right: the only faintly acceptable deal looks similar to membership except that it costs more, we lose our citizens' rights, and we lose our voice at the table.
And so why bother to Leave?
https://www.ft.com/content/c97af42a-...5-04b8afea6ea3
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Old 13-11-2018, 23:55   #2954
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
As someone pointed out on News Night, 17+ million do not speak for the whole population, no matter how often this is repeated.
Yes they do, that's the whole point of a referendum.

Everyone had their chance to vote, if they didnt take it, well thats tough.
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Old 14-11-2018, 02:20   #2955
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Re: Brexit

BREAKING: Hearing on Grapevine that Brexit Secretary of State, Dominic Raab has Resigned according to Tory HQ insiders. If true this is curtains to Theresa May’s Premiership.
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