UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Why would Boris ask for an extension when he has pledged to leave by 31 October? You're not really joining up the dots here, jfman.

Old Boy, do you still feel this way? You do have a right to change your mind.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Odd that you omitted to quote my first sentence:

Not odd, it’s the point I was making from the start, RE a wrecking amendment.

The 2nd reading of the Bill went through, the timetable for it didn’t. But it will still be read. The numbers that voted to progress the bill may include those that would pass the bill only with an amendment such as a referendum e.g a wrecking amendment.

So we may end up with a week or two debate on the bill, which had a decent majority to get that point, but then only to have it wrecked by an amendment for a 2nd Ref or CU or other. Only then to have Boris pull it because of that and call for a GE, that Labour would find it very hard to weasel out of.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not odd, it’s the point I was making from the start

It is, because you ignored a pertinent point, indeed one that agreed with you.

I doubt Labour are worried about an election to be honest. Boris will be comparable to May on the campaign, lose votes to the Brexit Party and who knows what the pole dancer has up her skirt/sleeve.

---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Old Boy, do you still feel this way? You do have a right to change your mind.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

I doubt Labour are worried about an election to be honest. Boris will be comparable to May on the campaign, lose votes to the Brexit Party and who knows what the pole dancer has up her skirt/sleeve.

Unusually naive of you.

May made a monumental mistake by thinking the 2017 election was about Brexit, which in the mind of the nation then, it wasn’t. Back then Brexit had been sorted, we voted Leave and people turned their attention to other things. Also poor May had as much personality as nasal hair.

No, there is no doubt, that this election - should it happen - will be a surrogate referendum. No body cares a flying duck about education, welfare, nhs, climate change - non of that is on the agenda until Brexit is sorted.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unusually naive of you.

May made a monumental mistake by thinking the 2017 election was about Brexit, which in the mind of the nation then, it wasn’t. Back then Brexit had been sorted, we voted Leave and people turned their attention to other things. Also poor May had as much personality as nasal hair.

No, there is no doubt, that this election - should it happen - will be a surrogate referendum. No body cares a flying duck about education, welfare, nhs, climate change - non of that is on the agenda until Brexit is sorted.

I like getting called naive in this thread. It usually means I’m on the right track. 29th March... 31st October...

A surrogate referendum is hugely risky if Farage comes to the table. The Tories will lose seats in Scotland - that’s 13 they need to find elsewhere to be a minority Government again.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

I like getting called naive in this thread. It usually means I’m on the right track. 29th March... 31st October...

A surrogate referendum is hugely risky if Farage comes to the table. The Tories will lose seats in Scotland - that’s 13 they need to find elsewhere to be a minority Government again.

They will lose seats, as will Labour. Scotland will be almost entirely SNP again ( fuelling wee Jimmy Krankys 2nd Indy Ref demands)

Labour will suffer much more than Tory, I see Brexit party impacting Labour more than Tory.

I don’t see Brexit party winning any seats, but diluting Labour letting Tory in.

Depending on arithmetic, don’t rule out DUP propping up Tories again, if that gives them a proper majority with no Tory rebels. With that they could force through no deal, or at least properly threaten it. Potentially getting the EU to give even more ground over N.I.

It's all Up for grabs

[Gavin78]

If half the labour MP's actually stayed awake they would have had time to read the documents instead of voting it down for no reason

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Old Boy, do you still feel this way? You do have a right to change your mind.

I demand more time before I answer that question!

Jfman was putting forward a suggestion that Boris goes voluntarily for an extension, but I said he wouldn't do that because he pledged not to.

Being forced into it is a different thing over which, frankly, he has no control.

A small, technical extension to give a little extra time (another day or so) I can live with, but I accept that if amendments are put forward that the PM cannot agree, he will need to pull the Bill and go for an election. Given that an extension is likely to be in place, there is no reason why the opposition parties shouldn't agree that now.

Then, with a working majority, BJ will be much better placed to push the Bill through. The opposition had better hope that he doesn't go for a no-deal Brexit when he has the votes to do so. Serve 'em right if he does.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I demand more time before I answer that question!

Jfman was putting forward a suggestion that Boris goes voluntarily for an extension, but I said he wouldn't do that because he pledged not to.

Being forced into it is a different thing over which, frankly, he has no control.

A small, technical extension to give a little extra time (another day or so) I can live with, but I accept that if amendments are put forward that the PM cannot agree, he will need to pull the Bill and go for an election. Given that an extension is likely to be in place, there is no reason why the opposition parties shouldn't agree that now.

Then, with a working majority, BJ will be much better placed to push the Bill through. The opposition had better hope that he doesn't go for a no-deal Brexit when he has the votes to do so. Serve 'em right if he does.

no chance OB another hung parliament in the making Brexit party gonna split tory votes as we still be in EU in Novemeber as I said we would when liar Johnson promised that

[1andrew1]

Good thing about an election is that the parties have now clarified their positions.
So we have:
Brexit Party: No deal
Conservatives: Boris's withdrawal agreement
Labour: Second referendum
LibDems/Greens/Plaid Cmyru: Revoke Article 50

SNP: Free woad and broadswords for all

Originally Posted by Gavin78

If half the labour MP's actually stayed awake they would have had time to read the documents instead of voting it down for no reason

Yes, because it’s easy to review, annotate, and put together questions on a huge complex document in less than 24 hours...

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes, because it’s easy to review, annotate, and put together questions on a huge complex document in less than 24 hours...

According to a ex cabinet minister it needs far more then 24 hours to go through it with a fine tooth comb.

The real fun in all this is the blame game which of course means accusing everyone else of being perfidious traitors to the voters/country whilst punching themselves in the eye..

[Carth]

It really really has become something of a borefest now

We all know that the EU, understandably, won't budge very far from the two deals already tabled. We also know they will not willingly let a 'no deal' happen, and obviously do not want us to leave.

We should all also be aware that, given the fragmentation of brexit desires (as shown in Andrews post), parties are going to fight tooth and nail (and Scottish courts) to block what they don't want.

52% of the electorate that voted in the 2016 referendum, voted to leave, around 85% of the politicians want to remain . . . make of that what you will . . .

Another extension looks set to happen, which IMO will solve nothing. Eventually someone in the EU will be frustrated enough to say NO . . and that's how we've wasted 4 years.