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Old 09-01-2019, 09:46   #6046
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Their duty is to safeguard the integrity & prosperity of this country and its citizens. Anything, and I mean anything, that compromises this duty can and should be challenged.

The comedy gold in all of this is the "take back control" and "sovereignty" babbling of the Leave campaign. I mean here is it folks: Parliament taking back control and asserting its sovereignty.

Don't you just love it ...
Youíre missing a very important point.

To some, "take back control" and "Parliamentary Sovereignty" means "doing what I want you to doĒ...
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:49   #6047
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Re: Brexit

79:13:10.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:50   #6048
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Er sorry, where did you pluck that nonsense from ?

There was no such election pledges, vote for a specific party for no deal wasnít on any cards.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------



No Iím not wrong, however actually.

They were elected to follow our instructions, we voted to leave the EU. Democracy is a wonderful thing, pity we have treacherous MPs not carrying out the will of the people, that will cause lasting damage to future Democratic processes because the electorate is currently being shafted.
However, history dictates actually you are

Burke, Green and Civil Service Ethics

Members of Parliament (MPs) are representatives, not delegates. Burke himself said the following to his constituents, having been returned as an MP: "Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion." In other words, MPs should act in what they judge to be the public interest - not as advocates for the interests of their constituents and therefore not necessarily in the way that their constituents might wish them to vote, nor even necessarily in the interests of their own constituency.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:54   #6049
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Their duty is to safeguard the integrity & prosperity of this country and its citizens. Anything, and I mean anything, that compromises this duty can and should be challenged.

The comedy gold in all of this is the "take back control" and "sovereignty" babbling of the Leave campaign. I mean here is it folks: Parliament taking back control and asserting its sovereignty.

Don't you just love it ...
Leaving the EU is putting the country on a more prosperous path. Doing trade deals with 90% World trade growth in next decade, is better than doing it with a declining 10% market being stuck in a corrupted entity.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:57   #6050
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Re: Brexit

I spent some time this morning considering all of this I think more importantly perhaps than Brexit itself is how do we even begin to bridge the ravine between the British people

If the scheduled exit occurs remain will never forgive exit unless it works
If there were to be a 2nd referendum and remain were somehow to win then they would never be forgiven by those wishing to leave unless we effect serious change from within the EU

A bridge too far too cross ?
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:58   #6051
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
However, history dictates actually you are

Burke, Green and Civil Service Ethics

Members of Parliament (MPs) are representatives, not delegates. Burke himself said the following to his constituents, having been returned as an MP: "Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion." In other words, MPs should act in what they judge to be the public interest - not as advocates for the interests of their constituents and therefore not necessarily in the way that their constituents might wish them to vote, nor even necessarily in the interests of their own constituency.
This is why you need to seriously wake up and read up these discussions on this forum. Like Piere stated, youíre late to the party and itís about high time you realised that what I say and post on here, I stand by, so stop telling me Iím wrong when Iím not, Iím not interested in your little history lesson.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:02   #6052
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
79:13:10.
Quote:
So we, Your people and sheep of Your pasture,
Will give You thanks forever;
We will show forth Your praise to all generations.
I see.....

Unless you meant:

Quote:
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Which is rather against the feeling of this thread
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:13   #6053
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
I spent some time this morning considering all of this I think more importantly perhaps than Brexit itself is how do we even begin to bridge the ravine between the British people

If the scheduled exit occurs remain will never forgive exit unless it works
If there were to be a 2nd referendum and remain were somehow to win then they would never be forgiven by those wishing to leave unless we effect serious change from within the EU

A bridge too far too cross ?
You make a very good couple of points.

Remain will be forgiving if an exit works.

Leave will never forgive if remain overturn a demorcratic vote.

That is the devide this country has been pushed into by remainers who for whatever reason did not agree with the result of the referendum and have (and still are) trying their best to overturn it.

Effecfting serious change within the EU is a non starter as has been proved many times over the years we have been members.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:17   #6054
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The referendum result was leave and not a no-deal. The electorate overwhelmingly rejected no-deal at the last election. Why do you have an issue with MPs carrying out the Will of the People? I sincerely hope it's not because you want no deal and wish to ignore the electorate's wishes?
The electorate did no such thing. 18 year olds, who know nothing about anything voted for that idiot Corbyn. And you well know that.

Some of you Remainers certainly know how to be bold with disingenuousness.



---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Their duty is to safeguard the integrity & prosperity of this country and its citizens. Anything, and I mean anything, that compromises this duty can and should be challenged.

The comedy gold in all of this is the "take back control" and "sovereignty" babbling of the Leave campaign. I mean here is it folks: Parliament taking back control and asserting its sovereignty.

Don't you just love it ...
As you well know, the "sovereignty" that we want is post-Brexit. The "sovereignty" now being claimed is a mechanism for denying a post-Brexit sovereignty which is anti-democratic in the light of the Referendum.


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Old 09-01-2019, 10:53   #6055
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
I spent some time this morning considering all of this I think more importantly perhaps than Brexit itself is how do we even begin to bridge the ravine between the British people

If the scheduled exit occurs remain will never forgive exit unless it works
If there were to be a 2nd referendum and remain were somehow to win then they would never be forgiven by those wishing to leave unless we effect serious change from within the EU

A bridge too far too cross ?
The remain camp have burned all their bridges as far as i'm concerned,there's only so much whinging about losing the referendum and trying to overturn it that i can take.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:17   #6056
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
The remain camp have burned all their bridges as far as i'm concerned,there's only so much whinging about losing the referendum and trying to overturn it that i can take.
So, would it be fair to say that your position is basically it doesnít matter what happens to the countries population as a whole ? So long as Brexit is delivered ?

Genuine question

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
You make a very good couple of points.

Remain will be forgiving if an exit works.

Leave will never forgive if remain overturn a demorcratic vote.

That is the devide this country has been pushed into by remainers who for whatever reason did not agree with the result of the referendum and have (and still are) trying their best to overturn it.

Effecfting serious change within the EU is a non starter as has been proved many times over the years we have been members.
So to consider some of the good points you also make.

1) when change stops in a democracy, weíre no longer in a democracy
2) if the result of the referendum had been the opposite I have no doubt we would be having the same argument but from the opposite side of the coin
3) If the UK is such a powerful entity in its own right and the EU are petrified of us leaving (which seems to be the thought process of many people who wish to leave) then surely if we were to remain in the EU that gives us the best chance to effect change (thatís if you believe our politicians can achieve that)

As were scheduled to leave currently and enter the transitional phase we basically maintain the same relationship but with no say
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:20   #6057
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
So, would it be fair to say that your position is basically it doesnít matter what happens to the countries population as a whole ? So long as Brexit is delivered ?

Genuine question
It's almost laughable that within your mindset - you want Brexit thwarted and then expect us Brexiteers to sit there and smile happy as if we will have to accept what's happening and get over it, make no mistake, we will not get over it and we will fight tooth and nail if we have to, to save democracy in this country, there will be no bridge building whatsoever with anybody who supports this disgusting, treacherous action to overturn a democratic decision.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:26   #6058
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
It's almost laughable that within your mindset - you want Brexit thwarted and then expect us Brexiteers to sit there and smile happy as if we will have to accept what's happening and get over it, make no mistake, we will not get over it and we will fight tooth and nail if we have to, to save democracy in this country, there will be no bridge building whatsoever with anybody who supports this disgusting, treacherous action to overturn a democratic decision.

Don’t dare to tell me of my mindset you know nothing about it, just as you keep rattling on about me not telling you this and that , hypocrite much ?

Actually, your and I jostling is done on this subject I’ll seek conversations with those willing to have a discussion. Best wishes
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Last edited by mrmistoffelees; 09-01-2019 at 11:28. Reason: Adding
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:32   #6059
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Donít dare to tell me of my mindset you know nothing about it, just as you keep rattling on about me not telling you this and that , hypocrite much ?

Actually, your and I jostling is done on this subject Iíll seek conversations with those willing to have a discussion. Best wishes
Pffft - Best wishes nothing - Your mindset is to thwart Brexit and then for everyone after to get over it and move on - and I am telling you, it won't happen, I don't care if you respond or not to this - so lose the "me me" attitude.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:32   #6060
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
So, would it be fair to say that your position is basically it doesn’t matter what happens to the countries population as a whole ? So long as Brexit is delivered ?

Genuine question

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------



So to consider some of the good points you also make.

1) when change stops in a democracy, we’re no longer in a democracy
2) if the result of the referendum had been the opposite I have no doubt we would be having the same argument but from the opposite side of the coin
3) If the UK is such a powerful entity in its own right and the EU are petrified of us leaving (which seems to be the thought process of many people who wish to leave) then surely if we were to remain in the EU that gives us the best chance to effect change (that’s if you believe our politicians can achieve that)

As were scheduled to leave currently and enter the transitional phase we basically maintain the same relationship but with no say
17.4 million people went and peacefully voted to leave and after the votes were counted the leave vote won so brexit must be delivered. if it isn't delivered then there is only one way to get democracy back on track and that involves a peoples uprising to clear out the treachery that is rife in our society ,it's clear voting achieves nothing if brexit does not happen.
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