UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

Are you implying you believe the EU will 'fold' at the last minute? If so why, and what makes you think the UK wont blink first? At the end of the day there are plenty of other (none British) fish in the sea and if the EU stop buying our fish is Borris going to suggest that the government should 'let us eat fish' (in his best Marie-Antoinette voice)?

No idea who will blink first. But it has to be done - we can't be subject to EU jurisdiction and their demands on fish are unreasonable.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It really isn’t - that’s just willy-waving, rather than negotiating...

Exactly, we've moved on from fantasy football to fantasy negotiating!

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

No idea who will blink first. But it has to be done - we can't be subject to EU jurisdiction and their demands on fish are unreasonable.

We can't afford to find out the hard way and BoJo knows this. Extension or capitulation.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The EU's not asking for an extension and we're all leavers now. It's not the 2016 contest all over again, it's about putting us in a better decision to negotiate and handle Covid, not giving into anyone.
We rank poorly with most of our Western European peers for Covid 19. Ireland's had an app for months, for example.

Except you, Andrew! We have, in fact, continued to negotiate, but the EU is standing firm with their red lines, as are we! Neither side is going to move until the eleventh hour, and moving that eleventh hour will achieve nothing.

When the EU realise we are not giving in, because we will be an independent nation, it will have to agree or lose the fishing rights that they want, and increased tariffs will result in less demand for their products.

As far as coronavirus is concerned, that is irrelevant and the constant chant of Britain being behind the curve is premature and nonsensical. It is far too early to judge who got the policy right and who failed. Those countries who shut everyone away earlier have been congratulating themselves on their foresight. What if they now get an aggressive second wave and we avoid it? Who would have had the correct policies in place then?

As for the casualty statistics, these vary significantly in terms of accuracy. We've been recording everything. Other countries are only recording certain coronavirus casualties (eg those who have died in hospital). It is naive and unprofessional to compare figures in this way when all countries have different recording criteria.

---------- Post added at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:06 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Exactly, we've moved on from fantasy football to fantasy negotiating!

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------


We can't afford to find out the hard way and BoJo knows this. Extension or capitulation.

That is not a Brexiteer's view of the position.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It really isn’t - that’s just willy-waving, rather than negotiating...

Just on one side?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That is not a Brexiteer's view of the position.

Brexiters don't have homogenous views.

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Except you, Andrew!

A nice thought but a fantasy - I acknowledge we're leaving but I also acknowledge our incompetence on managing Covid 19 and the need for more negotiating time. It's not too early to talk about the app fiasco, the care homes fiasco, the exams results fiasco...I could go on but to save your blushes I shan't.
Fishing rights aren't key and can be sorted with a phased withdrawal of rights and cash. A level playing field is the prize for the EU.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Brexiters don't have homogenous views.

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

A nice thought but a fantasy - I acknowledge we're leaving but I also acknowledge our incompetence on managing Covid 19 and the need for more negotiating time. It's not too early to talk about the app fiasco, the care homes fiasco, the exams results fiasco...I could go on but to save your blushes I shan't.
Fishing rights aren't key and can be sorted with a phased withdrawal of rights and cash. A level playing field is the prize for the EU.

Yes we are in agreement on that second paragraph.

The 'prize' that the EU want ties both our hands and our whatsit behind our back. That is not acceptable.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Yes we are in agreement on that second paragraph.

The 'prize' that the EU want ties both our hands and our whatsit behind our back. That is not acceptable.

Is it worse than a no-deal? No. Is it worse than membership? Yes.
The Wirecard fraud situation may work in our favour as it shows how the EU benefits from the City of London. But preying in aid to the City may not work.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Just on one side?

On any side

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Brexiters don't have homogenous views.

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

A nice thought but a fantasy - I acknowledge we're leaving but I also acknowledge our incompetence on managing Covid 19 and the need for more negotiating time. It's not too early to talk about the app fiasco, the care homes fiasco, the exams results fiasco...I could go on but to save your blushes I shan't.
Fishing rights aren't key and can be sorted with a phased withdrawal of rights and cash. A level playing field is the prize for the EU.

Except I'm not blushing, nor in any danger of it. There have certainly been some blunders and inefficiences around PPE, the app, the care homes and exam results. However, the bungling was by public servants - and the politicians clearly misplaced their faith in taking them at their word when it came to what would work. NHS procurement officers failed to stock enough PPE (they were not alone in the world) it was Simon Stevens who directed the hospitals to clear out patients from care homes back to their normal establishments, where they passed the virus to other residents, and it was Ofqual who came up with the dodgy algorythm.

I think it probably was the government that slipped up with their optimism on having our own app, although they were persuaded by their officers that their app was better than all the others. And some people wonder why Boris wants to shake up the Civil Service and the quangoes!

But all this is just deflection on your part, Andrew. This thread is about Brexit, not Covid, and the constant mantra that we should extend the duration of these negotiations is negative, tiresome and in the end, pointless.

Have you not clocked yet that the British public want all this to be over? Extending negotiations will just defer the inevitable, whatever that is - deal or no deal.

---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:47 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Is it worse than a no-deal? No. Is it worse than membership? Yes.

That's not what the British electorate believes. Of course it's worse than no deal.

The British public wants us out of the EU, with or without a deal. I thought that was clear, even to you. My bad

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But all this is just deflection on your part, Andrew. This thread is about Brexit, not Covid, and the constant mantra that we should extend the duration of these negotiations is negative, tiresome and in the end, pointless.

Have you not clocked yet that the British public want all this to be over? Extending negotiations will just defer the inevitable, whatever that is - deal or no deal.

No deflection on my part Old Boy, my point has clearly eluded you but to reiterate - BoJo's fumbling government seems to be over-stretched. tackling Covid and Brexit so to avoid a bad deal we need to extend. No deal is not an option.

If we leave with no deal this year, we start negotiations in 2022 from a position of weakness and also with no EU goodwill. You've clearly forgotten that Brexit doesn't end with no deal! That actually elongates the process as there will be lots of squabbling and a succession of smaller deals. You let the genie out of the bag in 2016 and it ain't going away. Negotiations with the EU are no part of British life for the forseeable future.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No deflection on my part Old Boy, my point has clearly eluded you but to reiterate - BoJo's fumbling government seems to be over-stretched. tackling Covid and Brexit so to avoid a bad deal we need to extend. No deal is not an option.

If we leave with no deal this year, we start negotiations in 2022 from a position of weakness and also with no EU goodwill. You've clearly forgotten that Brexit doesn't end with no deal! That actually elongates the process as there will be lots of squabbling and a succession of smaller deals. You let the genie out of the bag in 2016 and it ain't going away. Negotiations with the EU are no part of British life for the forseeable future.

Sorry, Andrew, it's you who has missed the point. It's not the government fumbling, it is its officers. And I did make the point that extending the deadline for a deal will make no difference to the EU's attitude. They will continue to be difficult until the bitter end.

All you can see is this big monster EU presence and poor little Britain cowering in the corner. You may be in for a surprise.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Except I'm not blushing, nor in any danger of it. There have certainly been some blunders and inefficiences around PPE, the app, the care homes and exam results. However, the bungling was by public servants - and the politicians clearly misplaced their faith in taking them at their word when it came to what would work. NHS procurement officers failed to stock enough PPE (they were not alone in the world) it was Simon Stevens who directed the hospitals to clear out patients from care homes back to their normal establishments, where they passed the virus to other residents, and it was Ofqual who came up with the dodgy algorythm.

I think it probably was the government that slipped up with their optimism on having our own app, although they were persuaded by their officers that their app was better than all the others. And some people wonder why Boris wants to shake up the Civil Service and the quangoes!

But all this is just deflection on your part, Andrew. This thread is about Brexit, not Covid, and the constant mantra that we should extend the duration of these negotiations is negative, tiresome and in the end, pointless.

Have you not clocked yet that the British public want all this to be over? Extending negotiations will just defer the inevitable, whatever that is - deal or no deal.

Funny how the Government gets the credit when things go right, but it's the Civil Servants' fault when it goes wrong...

The ones who were saying the App would work were the outsourced contractors and the Ministers - everyone else was saying "it won't work".

Was it the Civil Servants fault when Boris didn't deliver the “clear plan we have prepared to give every older person the dignity and security they deserve” in July 2019, on the steps of Downing Street?

Was it the Civil Servants' fault when Boris told NI businesses that "There will be no forms, no checks, no barriers of any kind. You will have unfettered access.”, when in fact they will be checks and forms to fill in?

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Sorry, Andrew, it's you who has missed the point. It's not the government fumbling, it is its officers. And I did make the point that extending the deadline for a deal will make no difference to the EU's attitude. They will continue to be difficult until the bitter end.

All you can see is this big monster EU presence and poor little Britain cowering in the corner. You may be in for a surprise.

The Government is responsible for the actions of it's workers, Civil Servants and politicians - it goes with the job.

They get paid the big bucks, they have to own the problems, not blamestorm.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Sorry, Andrew, it's you who has missed the point. It's not the government fumbling, it is its officers.

As this is not the Covid thread I'll be succinct - the Government took a lot of the key decisions about Covid eg outsourcing track and trace and the Conservatives have had 10 years to get the civil service right. Blame cannot be swerved.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

And I did make the point that extending the deadline for a deal will make no difference to the EU's attitude. They will continue to be difficult until the bitter end.
All you can see is this big monster EU presence and poor little Britain cowering in the corner. You may be in for a surprise.

There is no bitter end Old Boy. You completely fail to understand that no-deal is only the start of more discussions.
The penny is finally start to drop with some of the mainstream Brexit press like the Daily Mail and The Sun. I hope it drops with you before too long.

[Hom3r]

I was watching the news, and they asked Tony B about the governments handling of the Covid-19, I fell of my sofa when he did slag them off, in fact he almost praised them.

[papa smurf]

EU insider lifts lid on how Barnier's negotiating camp now racked with defeatist pessimism

The growing sense of despondency within Michel Barnier's team is fuelled by fears of a bitter no deal Brexit with EU negotiators braced for a vicious "blame game" over who is responsible for the stalemate. Last week's tense talks which ended in stalemate did nothing to lift flagging spirits in Brussels.

Ooh le heck,le reality ezz not what they thought eet was.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...er-david-frost