Britain outside the EU

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Do you know exactly what industry thought was needed post-Brexit? Industry would have known what the eventual deal would entail, given the UK would be a Third Country in the eyes of the EU.

I surmise that "industry" would have been worried about losing cheap labour - which sets off the war between profits and prices.

As I see it, "industry" will have to seek a UK workforce and their bottom line need will drive that as the Guvmin exercises levers in that direction. Inflation will move around till everything is adjusted and things return to normal. None of this can be done overnight.

As I see it those businesses will close, the public won't support higher prices to pay these wages when there's a cheaper foreign option, £30 an hour for picking broccoli and we still won't do it and I disagree with you and David "thick as mince" Davis about what industry would and wouldn't have known, I remember them begging for advice and being left to fend for themselves

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Do you know exactly what industry thought was needed post-Brexit? Industry would have known what the eventual deal would entail, given the UK would be a Third Country in the eyes of the EU.

I surmise that "industry" would have been worried about losing cheap labour - which sets off the war between profits and prices.

As I see it, "industry" will have to seek a UK workforce and their bottom line need will drive that as the Guvmin exercises levers in that direction. Inflation will move around till everything is adjusted and things return to normal. None of this can be done overnight.

But Industry was told by the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union / Chief Negotiator for Exiting the European Union, David Davis that "There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside".

Are you saying Industry should have planned for things they were told weren’t going to happen?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I’m not sure why you keep repeating this, Andrew - we know!

And as you know, any extension would have given remoaners even more opportunity to cause trouble.

You said time was against the government so I explained it could have had longer if it had wanted to.

I'm not sure that using inflammatory language (which we've been requested to avoid) makes for a constructive debate Old Boy and I encourage you to rise above it.

With an 80-seat majority, I can't see what trouble could have been caused. Waving a few EU flags in Parliament Square?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

As I see it those businesses will close, the public won't support higher prices to pay these wages when there's a cheaper foreign option, £30 an hour for picking broccoli and we still won't do it and I disagree with you and David "thick as mince" Davis about what industry would and wouldn't have known, I remember them begging for advice and being left to fend for themselves

At the rate we’re going, there will be no trade with the EU so there won’t be an alternative cheap labour option. If Macron gets his way, that is!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But Industry was told by the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union / Chief Negotiator for Exiting the European Union, David Davis that "There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside".

Are you saying Industry should have planned for things they were told weren’t going to happen?

Apparently, we should now all have believed Project Fear all along and it's our fault for not doing so!

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You said time was against the government so I explained it could have had longer if it had wanted to.

I'm not sure that using inflammatory language (which we've been requested to avoid) makes for a constructive debate Old Boy and I encourage you to rise above it.

With an 80-seat majority, I can't see what trouble could have been caused. Waving a few EU flags in Parliament Square?

There is no other word I can remember that describes those remainers who won’t accept the democratic decision of the British people.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There is no other word I can remember that describes those remainers who won’t accept the democratic decision of the British people.

You'll have to try a bit harder. But the point you're trying to make is void as Johnson had an 80-seat majority.

---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Do you know exactly what industry thought was needed post-Brexit? Industry would have known what the eventual deal would entail, given the UK would be a Third Country in the eyes of the EU.

The issue was it didn't know as the deal was only signed on Christmas Eve!

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You said time was against the government so I explained it could have had longer if it had wanted to.

I'm not sure that using inflammatory language (which we've been requested to avoid) makes for a constructive debate Old Boy and I encourage you to rise above it.

With an 80-seat majority, I can't see what trouble could have been caused. Waving a few EU flags in Parliament Square?

He'd be the first to moan if someone called him a brexshitter though

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

At the rate we’re going, there will be no trade with the EU so there won’t be an alternative cheap labour option. If Macron gets his way, that is!

Don't know why you're fixated with the EU, it's a big old world we opened ourselves up to and we'll see how patriotic we really are when it comes to shopping and paying the price

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Apparently, we should now all have believed Project Fear all along and it's our fault for not doing so!

The latest lie they're peddling is that it was all part of their plan all along, wonder why they kept it to themselves and labelled those telling the truth liars and Project Fearmongers

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

What kinds of trouble? Parliament had a clear majority to leave, and leave under the terms agreed. In what way could a 12 month extension cause problems?

Outside the Westminster pantomime it would have been valuable time for industry. Indeed those with “entrepreneurial spirit” make representations on a number of occasions about the problems that would be faced. For someone who persistently extols the virtues of businesses why would we not listen to them? If our economic recovery is going to be on their backs - and not the Governments - surely they have the most valuable contribution to make?

Just seen this. Exactly. It's the opposite of trouble that would have occurred during this 12-month extension - planning and mitigation.

Unfortunately, these days I struggle to tell the difference between posts from Conservative supporters and posts from Jeremy Corbyn supporters. They all seem to be laying the blame at the door of hardworking British business as a cheap scape goat for their Party's failings.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There is no other word I can remember that describes those remainers who won’t accept the democratic decision of the British people.

So if a Labour Government gets into power (I know, I know, very unlikely, but for the sake of discussion), how would you describe those who spoke out against any policies they implemented, as those policies would have been due to the democratic decision of the British people?

Would they be "traitors"?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

As I see it those businesses will close, the public won't support higher prices to pay these wages when there's a cheaper foreign option, £30 an hour for picking broccoli and we still won't do it and I disagree with you and David "thick as mince" Davis about what industry would and wouldn't have known, I remember them begging for advice and being left to fend for themselves

They would have been begging for advice from the wrong people! "Industry" new exactly what would be what when we became a third country. What did they really need from the Guvmin? They got the imports checks extension - they were never going to get any export favours from the EU. "Industry" were Remainers.

---------- Post added at 14:11 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

But Industry was told by the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union / Chief Negotiator for Exiting the European Union, David Davis that "There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside".

Are you saying Industry should have planned for things they were told weren’t going to happen?

You're being contrary for the sake of it. There were two or three more SoS for Brexit and "industry" at least knew we'd not be in any Customs Union or part of the EU's Internal Market.

Take the piss out of David Davis as much as you like - I support that - but don't use him as an excuse for "industry's" sleepwalk.

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 14:11 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You'll have to try a bit harder. But the point you're trying to make is void as Johnson had an 80-seat majority.

---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------


The issue was it didn't know as the deal was only signed on Christmas Eve!

"Industry" did know because of all the drafts that had been published. "Industry" have been a bigger failure than government.

---------- Post added at 14:15 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

So if a Labour Government gets into power (I know, I know, very unlikely, but for the sake of discussion), how would you describe those who spoke out against any policies they implemented, as those policies would have been due to the democratic decision of the British people?

Would they be "traitors"?

You do come up with ridiculous questions with a sarcastic tinge.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]They would have been begging for advice from the wrong people! "Industry" new exactly what would be what when we became a third country. What did they really need from the Guvmin? They got the imports checks extension - they were never going to get any export favours from the EU. "Industry" were Remainers.

That's probably not true if you previously only ever imported from or exported to the EU. At worst if you were an exporter, you had to complete Eurostat submissions monthly and that was if you exported a lot.

In my company, we were lucky in that we have an EU based warehouse that shipped to EU and non-EU countries so there was some experience of the requirements for various levels of trade agreement with the EU. This meant we could war game various scenarios from no deal upwards on what might be required to ship to the UK.

The biggest difficulty was that we and our customers didn't know what was going to happen. For trade compliance lovers, our company ships using 'Delivered at Place' or DAP Incoterms meaning that we ship to our customer but they are liable for import clearance and duties. My customers did not know what that would mean to them until the 24th December. They could have some guesses but no clarity until a week before the deal, if any, would come in to effect.

in the meantime, our 12 customer service representatives had to be trained up on trade compliance issues that might or might not happen while at the same time handling the year end rush for orders and invoicing. We also had to sandbox test our order handling system for the most likely scenarios to make sure that they would all work if needed.

My company was lucky in having the resources in place to try and make this all as smooth as possible. Even then, the disruption was considerable with a team of 8 people working on this full time by November 2020. This is why they won an award from our CEO! Smaller companies would not have the resources to make the transition as smooth as it was for my company.

It's much like the old y2k thing - not much happened but that was because many, many people were working in the background to make sure nothing happened

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

That's probably not true if you previously only ever imported from or exported to the EU. At worst if you were an exporter, you had to complete Eurostat submissions monthly and that was if you exported a lot.

In my company, we were lucky in that we have an EU based warehouse that shipped to EU and non-EU countries so there was some experience of the requirements for various levels of trade agreement with the EU. This meant we could war game various scenarios from no deal upwards on what might be required to ship to the UK.

The biggest difficulty was that we and our customers didn't know what was going to happen. For trade compliance lovers, our company ships using 'Delivered at Place' or DAP Incoterms meaning that we ship to our customer but they are liable for import clearance and duties. My customers did not know what that would mean to them until the 24th December. They could have some guesses but no clarity until a week before the deal, if any, would come in to effect.

in the meantime, our 12 customer service representatives had to be trained up on trade compliance issues that might or might not happen while at the same time handling the year end rush for orders and invoicing. We also had to sandbox test our order handling system for the most likely scenarios to make sure that they would all work if needed.

My company was lucky in having the resources in place to try and make this all as smooth as possible. Even then, the disruption was considerable with a team of 8 people working on this full time by November 2020. This is why they won an award from our CEO! Smaller companies would not have the resources to make the transition as smooth as it was for my company.

It's much like the old y2k thing - not much happened but that was because many, many people were working in the background to make sure nothing happened

A great post - thanks for taking the time to share your practical experience with the Forum.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

A great post - thanks for taking the time to share your practical experience with the Forum.

Yes, shame it'll be poo pooed by people who know better coz they read it on Facebook or have a feeling

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yes, shame it'll be poo pooed by people who know better coz they read it on Facebook or have a feeling

That'll be the brexshitters then..