Child grooming gang found guilty

Originally Posted by danielf

Actually, the bit from The Huffington Post is ambiguous:



It's not clear at all who did the investigation and who made the claim about 100% accuracy.

as per one of my other links it states that the cps and the police conducted an inquiry on the instruction of the judge because the tweet was 100% accurate

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

Where did you get that quote from Marty?

sorry forgot the link


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...n_1502412.html

Marty, you have misread that - nowhere does it state the judge ordered the investigation because it was 100% accurate, he ordered it because of the accusation there had been a leak - two different things....

It was one of the guilty defendant's lawyer's who stated

Speaking on Wednesday as his client was sentenced to eight years in jail, Yousaf said: "An inquiry by the judge of the jury revealed that this report was true in that they had found seven defendants guilty.

Do you think he may be bending the facts a little, as the judge states elsewhere in that same article

When the matter was brought in front of the court. Judge Clifton said that "having heard that the jury deny any improper behaviour" he was "satisfied that no juror is at fault in communicating the jury's position, either deliberately or accidentally to anyone else".

I know who I would believe about what the judge said....

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

Indeed .I wonder if the sentences would have been harsher if race had been included as one of the factors,because i have no doubt that any appeal will be centered about race

if proven the sentence would've been harsher no doubt, trouble is it's quite hard to prove a hate crime, a guy I went to school with was murdered by an Asian gang a few years back and they were screaming racial abuse as they kicked him to death but apparently that wasn't a hate crime according to the cps

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Nobody does know if anyone knew that the jury had reached verdicts - just because (and I know this may be stating the bleeding obvious) Nick Griffin says something, doesn't mean its true).

My default position with Nicky is that he's telling lies almost every time he states something anyway.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

if proven the sentence would've been harsher no doubt, trouble is it's quite hard to prove a hate crime, a guy I went to school with was murdered by an Asian gang a few years back and they were screaming racial abuse as they kicked him to death but apparently that wasn't a hate crime according to the cps

Sadly that doesn't surprise me.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Marty, you have misread that - nowhere does it state the judge ordered the investigation because it was 100% accurate, he ordered it because of the accusation there had been a leak - two different things....

It was one of the guilty defendant's lawyer's who stated

Do you think he may be bending the facts a little, as the judge states elsewhere in that same article

I know who I would believe about what the judge said....

we'll just have to wait until the appeal to get the full details ,i wouldn't imagine a judge would comment for fear of prejudicing any future action and i don't think any lawyer/barrister would comment about such improprieties without good cause or he may find himself in a lot of bother

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

if proven the sentence would've been harsher no doubt, trouble is it's quite hard to prove a hate crime, a guy I went to school with was murdered by an Asian gang a few years back and they were screaming racial abuse as they kicked him to death but apparently that wasn't a hate crime according to the cps
.

Apparently some of the defendants told police upon arrest that it was motivated by race which was dismissed by the police and the judge

. "Some of you, when arrested, said it was triggered by race," he continued. "That is nonsense. What triggered this prosecution was your lust and greed."

To me that just reinforces my belief that the police and cps are worried about bringing race into criminal matters especially when other serious charges like rape are involved.I don't think the judge grasps the idea that the group of men satisfied their greed and lust with white British girls because they were white and British ,they could probably have found some Chinese or Polish girls to satisfy their greed and lust

It seems that everyone is scared of calling anyone but white people racist if this had been a gang of 11 white men doing this to only asian girls racism would be assumed not asked if it was a part of it. Thats the trouble in the UK and a root cause of a lot of bad feeling racism is not evenly applied even when it should be. Sorry but the most hateful racist rubbish i ever heard didn't come out of the mouth of a white person and whilst i have known many racist white people i have also known as many non white racists. We need to be more mature about this issue in the UK and not be scared of it or allow it to be a one race aspect. Racism is present in every community and is practised by every community and we should start debating it with that in mind instead of allowing it to be presumed it is a white to all other races problem.

This case was as much about race as lust and greed and the case and punishment should have reflected that to send the message loud and clear that any form of racism from any group to another is not tolerated in the UK.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

It seems that everyone is scared of calling anyone but white people racist if this had been a gang of 11 white men doing this to only asian girls racism would be assumed not asked if it was a part of it. Thats the trouble in the UK and a root cause of a lot of bad feeling racism is not evenly applied even when it should be. Sorry but the most hateful racist rubbish i ever heard didn't come out of the mouth of a white person and whilst i have known many racist white people i have also known as many non white racists. We need to be more mature about this issue in the UK and not be scared of it or allow it to be a one race aspect. Racism is present in every community and is practised by every community and we should start debating it with that in mind instead of allowing it to be presumed it is a white to all other races problem.

This case was as much about race as lust and greed and the case and punishment should have reflected that to send the message loud and clear that any form of racism from any group to another is not tolerated in the UK.

sums it nicely

[Osem]

Yup I would tend to agree.

[Russ]

My OH has told me this sort of thing is rife in Pakistani communities. Also in some Saudi regions, girls are allowed to marry at 12, 13 etc and this may well have been an influencing factor. I'm pretty sure the police only claimed it wasn't about race to stave off any potential race riots that this would cause had they publicly stated the opposite.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

It seems that everyone is scared of calling anyone but white people racist if this had been a gang of 11 white men doing this to only asian girls racism would be assumed not asked if it was a part of it. Thats the trouble in the UK and a root cause of a lot of bad feeling racism is not evenly applied even when it should be. Sorry but the most hateful racist rubbish i ever heard didn't come out of the mouth of a white person and whilst i have known many racist white people i have also known as many non white racists. We need to be more mature about this issue in the UK and not be scared of it or allow it to be a one race aspect. Racism is present in every community and is practised by every community and we should start debating it with that in mind instead of allowing it to be presumed it is a white to all other races problem.

This case was as much about race as lust and greed and the case and punishment should have reflected that to send the message loud and clear that any form of racism from any group to another is not tolerated in the UK.

Only 75% of people charged with a hate crime are white. It seems a high amount but when you consider that white people make up something like 90% of the population then that means they are under represented. It's a myth that minorities don't get punished for racism or hate crimes, it's just an attempt for people to apply victim status to themselves.

The truth is when a member of a ethnic minority is convicted of a hate crime be for racism, homophobia or otherwise then it gets mostly ignored. When a white person does then there is a raft of comments complaining about non-existent double standards.

Originally Posted by Russ

My OH has told me this sort of thing is rife in Pakistani communities. Also in some Saudi regions, girls are allowed to marry at 12, 13 etc and this may well have been an influencing factor. I'm pretty sure the police only claimed it wasn't about race to stave off any potential race riots that this would cause had they publicly stated the opposite.

There where some disturbances at the kebab shop where this case centered anyway ,despite the shop being under new management,maybe it would have been worse had the police announced it was about race as well as lust and greed but isn't that like burying their heads in sand and ignoring crimes because they don't want to deal with it ?.This was the accusation leveled at the police when this case was emerged last year

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by martyh

To me that just reinforces my belief that the police and cps are worried about bringing race into criminal matters especially when other serious charges like rape are involved.I don't think the judge grasps the idea that the group of men satisfied their greed and lust with white British girls because they were white and British ,they could probably have found some Chinese or Polish girls to satisfy their greed and lust

What they did was bad, regardless of the race of the victims.

I think the reason that they didn't bring race into it is simply that if they did, it is likely that a lot of people would then have focused on the race of the perpetrators and how they were treated by the police, the victims almost forgotten.

The Police have made great strides in dealing with racism amongst Police officers, but there are those who will still leap on the slightest chance that they have been racist.

I'm wondering what percentage of sex offenders are white now.

It really comes to something when what colour/race the perpetrators are is more important than the crime..

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I'm wondering what percentage of sex offenders are white now.

It really comes to something when what colour/race the perpetrators are is more important than the crime..

Personally, I think their race is irrelevant. If they raped someone, they did a bad thing. Regardless of either their race, or their victim's.

Originally Posted by Stuart

What they did was bad, regardless of the race of the victims.

I think the reason that they didn't bring race into it is simply that if they did, it is likely that a lot of people would then have focused on the race of the perpetrators and how they were treated by the police, the victims almost forgotten.

The Police have made great strides in dealing with racism amongst Police officers, but there are those who will still leap on the slightest chance that they have been racist.

Not sure that denying the problem is the way forward though.In cases like this we ask various groups like the Ramadhan Foundation to speak out against these people from within their community but why should they bother if we deny it happens.
This sort of crime happens in all communities and is of course wrong and should be dealt with harshly but when it is aggrevated by racial hatred then instead of denying it we need to address it full on instead of pretending it doesn't exist

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Stuart

Personally, I think their race is irrelevant. If they raped someone, they did a bad thing. Regardless of either their race, or their victim's.

Their race is irrelevant ,i agree but to deliberately target white British girls because they are white and British is very relevant.
However ,having said that we do only have the defendants claim that they where racially motivated which could be true but they could also be trying to aggrevate a already emotive subject out of pure malice ,and in the interests of a fair discussion(and the cool light of day) it occures to me that i can't remember the last time i saw groups of Pakistani,indian, etc girls hanging around a kebab shop,so maybe to satisfy their evil intentions they had no choice but to target white British girls