Coronavirus

[Sephiroth]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3582124/

This article explains the reduced immune system capability in elderly people.

Apparently it is principally due to shrinkage of the Thymus.

Abstract
The effects of aging on the immune system are manifest at multiple levels that include reduced production of B and T cells in bone marrow and thymus and diminished function of mature lymphocytes in secondary lymphoid tissues. As a result, elderly individuals do not respond to immune challenge as robustly as the young. An important goal of aging research is to define the cellular changes that occur in the immune system and the molecular events that underlie them. Considerable progress has been made in this regard, and this information has provided the rationale for clinical trials to rejuvenate the aging immune system.

Everyone I know has also been given Pfizer but it could just be a coincidence if there was any policy I am sure it would have leaked by now.

[Ken W]

Originally Posted by Damien

Everyone I know has also been given Pfizer but it could just be a coincidence if there was any policy I am sure it would have leaked by now.

I was given the Oxford jab

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

Everyone I know has also been given Pfizer but it could just be a coincidence if there was any policy I am sure it would have leaked by now.

Not that I think they have, I think it's more likely the Pfizer one has been in the supply chain longer, but you could in theory implement this idea quietly by controlling who gets supply, when in line with how far along the JCVI list they are.

In terms of being in the supply chain longer the leaked Scottish Government documents (assuming they get 10% of the vaccines as a proportion of population) puts 7 million of the Pfizer vaccine in the supply to date. The AZ vaccine gets there this week, rising from 800 000 total supply in week commencing 11th January.

I don't know how long it takes from delivery to arm but it's extremely likely anyone vaccinated before 18th January had the Pfizer one, on a sliding scale to next week where it should become about a 50/50 across everyone vaccinated to date.

I tried to see which vials were being used in the package broadcast on the BBC news at 10 last night. The only bottle I could read a label on was an AstraZeneca one, so it’s definitely out there, although of course it’s impossible to say anything more about it than that.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Chris

I tried to see which vials were being used in the package broadcast on the BBC news at 10 last night. The only bottle I could read a label on was an AstraZeneca one, so it’s definitely out there, although of course it’s impossible to say anything more about it than that.

My surgery in Wokingham is doing AZ.

[Hom3r]

My dads first jab was the pfizer jab on the 14th

Someone I know had to fill in a form to book their appointment and it gave them the choice if which one to take which I thought was odd for both medical reasons (why give people the choice?) and logistically too. However, when they turned up they were only offering Pfizer anyway.

[jfman]

https://www.skysports.com/share/12208376

Suppose it’s easy to fudge the numbers if you let anyone passing by the mass vaccination site jump the queue.

Originally Posted by jfman

https://www.skysports.com/share/12208376

Suppose it’s easy to fudge the numbers if you let anyone passing by the mass vaccination site jump the queue.

It is possible that football club employees are getting the defrosted dregs at the end of the shift. Their stadium has been used as a testing centre which has probably allowed them to develop contacts and know who to ask. Any leftovers of the Pfizer vaccine must otherwise be destroyed. I would be more surprised if this hasn’t happened in lots of places where the Pfizer vaccine is used. Obviously it is better if it’s used on more vulnerable people first but if they don’t know how much vaccine is going to be left at the end of the day and it’s a matter of phoning someone and telling them they can have it provided they arrive within 20 minutes, that’s a difficult procedure to incorporate into the regular schedule.

It’s bad PR though, and if that’s what is happening then some effort must be made to regulate it so someone other than the fittest in society gets to ‘jump’ the queue.

The clues are in the article ;

Government protocols are prioritising the over 70s and the clinically extremely vulnerable.

Once a pack is opened and defrosted, it must be used within two hours.

Prioritize means give it them first, if you can.

If non are available in the two hours, then you give it to whoever is available, not waste it.

Its happening in a lot of places, some of our local school staff are getting jabs left over from sessions, rather than it be wasted.

[Pierre]

I’d rather they stick it in anyone’s arm rather than throw it away. Plus you don’t know the personal circumstances of the people involved they may be asthmatic or have other underlying conditions.

Once again always better to get the full facts before passing judgment, if it is the case that these are perfectly healthy people that got the jab because their aunt works at the surgery then I’ll agree it would be poor, be we don’t know.

[jfman]

I'm fully aware what prioritise if you can means, but of you wanted to fudge the figures your simply defrost far more than you have for appointments scheduled. This could be done under false pretences - e.g. intent to have people phone their way down the JCVI list.

If unsuccessful grab whoever is walking past.

I'm not saying they are gaming the system but it'd be interesting to know how many excess people are getting vaccinated outside the JCVI list. I bet nobody is counting.

FWIW I also think it's better to inject someone than throw it away. I'm only pointing out that it's possible to game the system if your intent is to have a high headline figure while "prioritising the vulnerable".

Originally Posted by jfman

I'm fully aware what prioritise if you can means, but of you wanted to fudge the figures your simply defrost far more than you have for appointments scheduled. This could be done under false pretences - e.g. intent to have people phone their way down the JCVI list.

If unsuccessful grab whoever is walking past.

I'm not saying they are gaming the system but it'd be interesting to know how many excess people are getting vaccinated outside the JCVI list. I bet nobody is counting.

FWIW I also think it's better to inject someone than throw it away. I'm only pointing out that it's possible to game the system if your intent is to have a high headline figure while "prioritising the vulnerable".

I'll say this for you, you have turned cynicism into an art form on this forum.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'll say this for you, you have turned cynicism into an art form on this forum.

I do my best

Another strategy might be to do some public sector workplaces:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-covid-vaccine

I guess I do admire their creative solutions. There’s no point in holding up vaccination if there are more vaccines there than infrastructure (and people identified on) the JCVI list allows. But if others take short cuts, or are slower because they aren’t taking short cuts, then I don’t think we are necessarily well placed to criticise.