Britain outside the EU

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not at all.

You have offered, firstly, a straw man. I don’t defend Brexit at any cost. I simply point out that I don’t believe “at any cost” (I.e. the most extreme worst case) will arise, and that so far I’m correct.

Second, you have offered an appeal to authority. Relevant experience earns a hearing, it does not earn automatic, uncritical acceptance. As you have offered no rationale for accepting this person’s view other than their job title I can only conclude this is what you’re doing.

A critical appraisal of any opinion must include some attempt to understand the context in which they’re speaking and their motivations for doing so. Such as, in this case, the likelihood that they have permanently lost their means of undercutting British drivers wages by hiring east European ones.

When issues have been highlighted due to Brexit you have time and time again dismissed them, even when primary sources of evidence have been presented to counter. Now, if I’m offering a straw man argument all you’re offering is blind devotion.

You’ve made no clinical appraisal whatsoever on the subject, if you have evidence that counters what’s been said, then please, let’s see it.

To ignore a primary source and counter without fact but instead use conjecture and speculation is breathtakingly arrogant.

[Carth]

Primary source being someone who's 'members' want the reintroduction of cheap labour, and the continuance of shite conditions

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

Primary source being someone who's 'members' want the reintroduction of cheap labour, and the continuance of shite conditions

What would you suggest we do instead of a capitalist society ?

To add, European countries don’t have the same level of shortages as we do, and they operate in a similar if not the same way regarding pay and conditions (albeit truck stops on the French autoroutes are far far superior to ours for example)

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

What would you suggest we do instead of a capitalist society ?

To add, European countries don’t have the same level of shortages as we do, and they operate in a similar if not the same way regarding pay and conditions (albeit truck stops on the French autoroutes are far far superior to ours for example)

At least you and I can agree on that!

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

At least you and I can agree on that!

Indeed, nice innit ??

Travelling across France, Germany & Austria a couple of years ago on the bike and the difference in roads and services between the U.K. and those countries is night and day.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

When issues have been highlighted due to Brexit you have time and time again dismissed them, even when primary sources of evidence have been presented to counter. Now, if I’m offering a straw man argument all you’re offering is blind devotion.

You’ve made no clinical appraisal whatsoever on the subject, if you have evidence that counters what’s been said, then please, let’s see it.

To ignore a primary source and counter without fact but instead use conjecture and speculation is breathtakingly arrogant.

If I was writing an academic essay, and you were marking it, your words here might carry some weight. But as I’m not, and you’re not, and the reasons why hauliers might be upset about having to hire British workers have actually been covered - with relevant evidence - multiple times in this thread …. Please get a grip.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

If I was writing an academic essay, and you were marking it, your words here might carry some weight. But as I’m not, and you’re not, and the reasons why hauliers might be upset about having to hire British workers have actually been covered - with relevant evidence - multiple times in this thread …. Please get a grip.

No need to get grip, evidence has been presented which you have either been unwilling or unable to provide anything to counter apart from your own personal musings

In this instance. You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found out wanting. (c) A Knights Tale

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

No need to get grip, evidence has been presented which you have either been unwilling or unable to provide anything to counter apart from your own personal musings

In this instance. You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found out wanting. (c) A Knights Tale

Actually, (c) the Bible - specifically Daniel 5:25, where the quote is first given in the original Aramaic (“Mene, mene, tekel, parsin”) then interpreted by Daniel for the benefit of Belshazzar, a Babylonian king who was understandably perturbed when a disembodied hand appeared, and wrote them on his dining room wall:

”Here is what these words mean:
Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.
Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
Peres: Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.” (Daniel 5:26-28)

Primary sources and all that.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Isn't AUSAUK primarily about defence and not trade?

yes, but the point clearly sailed over your head. It is about defence but there is also an economical element to it, £30 odd billion, most of it going the way of the USA but we'll pick up elements of it.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Actually, (c) the Bible - specifically Daniel 5:25, where the quote is first given in the original Aramaic (“Mene, mene, tekel, parsin”) then interpreted by Daniel for the benefit of Belshazzar, a Babylonian king who was understandably perturbed when a disembodied hand appeared, and wrote them on his dining room wall:



Primary sources and all that.

Touché, but then, I’m aware of the origin, and as i posted, I attributed it to the film itself.

Never mind, nice try though

[Pierre]

Well if you consider that the "primary" objective of Brexit was to leave the EU, then I would say it has been 100% successful?

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I’m aware of the origin

doubtful.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well if you consider that the "primary" objective of Brexit was to leave the EU, then I would say it has been 100% successful?

You would indeed be absolutely right. However, where are the sunlit uplands that we were promised?

On another note Tesco now shutting some forecourts

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well if you consider that the "primary" objective of Brexit was to leave the EU, then I would say it has been 100% successful?

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------



doubtful.

Based on ? Oh conjecture meet speculation, again !

To clarify aware != to possess in-depth knowledge of

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You would indeed be absolutely right. However, where are the sunlit uplands that we were promised?

remainers said it was all going to be apocolyptic, leavers said it was going to be paradise. The sensible among us knew it would be neither.

But the whole discussion is pointless.

We're out, and if the Labour shortage and other shortages are due to Brexit or not, is irrelevant.

Based on ?

You don't come across as a biblical scholar.

[Carth]

aah Tesco, one of the big supermarket chains that rely heavily on 'just in time' deliveries, and the (nefarious) practice of getting dirt cheap prices from suppliers of goods . .

hmm, we can deliver 1000 gallons of petrol to you today for £35k, or deliver 1000 gallons to someone else in a couple of days for £42k . . . choices, choices

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

What would you suggest we do instead of a capitalist society ?

To add, European countries don’t have the same level of shortages as we do, and they operate in a similar if not the same way regarding pay and conditions (albeit truck stops on the French autoroutes are far far superior to ours for example)

Surely if the driver shortage is due to brexit then the EU would have no shortages. If EU shortages are less than 100,000 then the alledged shortage here due to EU drivers returning home would have filled those vacancies in the EU.