Brexit (Old)

[denphone]

Indeed but has ever a country been so deeply divided.

[1andrew1]

Brexit voters were sold an impossible dream back in 2016, but the Brexit elite were happy to provide snappy phrases like "Project Fear" when challenged by the realities.
Once Brexiters have moved into the stage of accepting this, and I appreciate that this phase won't happen overnight, they should direct their fire at those who sold them that dream, and not just those who had to pick up the pieces.

Her poll numbers have actually gone up since the deal. This effort to engage public to build support is working for her.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by denphone

What else can you expect as many politicians are full of contradictions and insincerity sadly.

In defence of the PM (something I’m loathed to do) she is a remainer, implementing a policy she doesn’t agree with because everyone who campaigned to leave had no coherent plan of how to achieve Brexit.

One thing she most definitely isn’t is a traitor. She stepped up when no-one else would.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jfman

In defence of the PM (something I’m loathed to do) she is a remainer, implementing a policy she doesn’t agree with because everyone who campaigned to leave had no coherent plan of how to achieve Brexit.

And there lies why it has been such a omnishambles.

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

One thing she most definitely isn’t is a traitor. She stepped up when no-one else would.

l for one would not call her a traitor as even though l am no fan of her l am glad she has not given in to the hardliners.

[jfman]

I agree with that statement, but it’s not a shambles because of TM.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Her poll numbers have actually gone up since the deal. This effort to engage public to build support is working for her.

It’s not public support she needs.

Originally Posted by Pierre

It’s not public support she needs.

Nope but this is a clear strategy they have. They are probably hoping that public support will apply political pressure on MPs, make it an unpopular thing to do to vote against this deal. Especially if as predicted it goes to a second round after being rejected once.

I think May's best argument is the 'let's get on with it'. The voters might be sick of this whole thing by now and back it just to get it over and done with. I am certainly sick of it.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

In defence of the PM (something I’m loathed to do) she is a remainer, implementing a policy she doesn’t agree with because everyone who campaigned to leave had no coherent plan of how to achieve Brexit.

One thing she most definitely isn’t is a traitor. She stepped up when no-one else would.

That is far too simplistic. Theresa May was not an enthusiastic supporter of 'Remain' and did not throw herself into the debate. In reality, she probably voted to remain to show loyalty to David Cameron.

It is an absolute fallacy to continue to spread this myth that as a remainer she cannot grasp what is needed to leave the EU. I've had to do many things in my time at work that I have not personally believed in and been congratulated for my efforts. Theresa May soon realised that there was a fair bit of fluff flying around from the likes of Boris and realised that she was probably the only one to have a vision of how we could leave without causing too much disruption to business.

TM's assessment was a fair one, although personally, I have little doubt that with the right leadership, we could have made a 'no deal' Brexit work. Either way, we'll get there in the end.

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Nope but this is a clear strategy they have. They are probably hoping that public support will apply political pressure on MPs, make it an unpopular thing to do to vote against this deal. Especially if as predicted it goes to a second round after being rejected once.

I think May's best argument is the 'let's get on with it'. The voters might be sick of this whole thing by now and back it just to get it over and done with. I am certainly sick of it.

I agree, and it is pretty clear now I tbink, that the public do just want to get on with it.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Nope but this is a clear strategy they have. They are probably hoping that public support will apply political pressure on MPs, make it an unpopular thing to do to vote against this deal. Especially if as predicted it goes to a second round after being rejected once.

I think May's best argument is the 'let's get on with it'. The voters might be sick of this whole thing by now and back it just to get it over and done with. I am certainly sick of it.

Correct.

But how many MPs voted in Remain in staunch Leave constituencies?

However, I think it’s too close to the finishing line now.

If it gets voted down in Parliament.........god knows.

I think it will get voted down at the first but then what?

Labour will go 'well, General Election' which won't happen.

There isn't Parliamentary support for a second referendum. There isn't Parliamentary support for a Hard Brexit and the only option remaining for the second group, the MPs wanting to avoid a hard Brexit, is this deal on a second try....

[1andrew1]

I think Theress May will keep plugging away till it's either passed or she gets bored and resigns. I don't think the other options have more support than her proposals, unpopular as her proposals are in Parliament.
Curve ball would be something like a Norway deal but I don't think there's much support for that either and time is against it. As others have said, people are bored with Brexit and There's a May's agreement tackles this issue

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That is far too simplistic. Theresa May was not an enthusiastic supporter of 'Remain' and did not throw herself into the debate. In reality, she probably voted to remain to show loyalty to David Cameron.

It is an absolute fallacy to continue to spread this myth that as a remainer she cannot grasp what is needed to leave the EU. I've had to do many things in my time at work that I have not personally believed in and been congratulated for my efforts. Theresa May soon realised that there was a fair bit of fluff flying around from the likes of Boris and realised that she was probably the only one to have a vision of how we could leave without causing too much disruption to business.

TM's assessment was a fair one, although personally, I have little doubt that with the right leadership, we could have made a 'no deal' Brexit work. Either way, we'll get there in the end.

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------



I agree, and it is pretty clear now I tbink, that the public do just want to get on with it.

At no point did I suggest she cannot grasp what is needed to leave the EU. I think that, as someone in favour of remaining, she can look at it with the cold objectivity required.

Others, mainly on the leave side, lack objectivity and often view it through some outdated view of Empire and nationalist pride. Often demonstrated with wartime terminology, of stances more appropriate to the 19th century than the 21st.

---------- Post added at 10:42 ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

I think it will get voted down at the first but then what?

Labour will go 'well, General Election' which won't happen.

There isn't Parliamentary support for a second referendum. There isn't Parliamentary support for a Hard Brexit and the only option remaining for the second group, the MPs wanting to avoid a hard Brexit, is this deal on a second try....

This is when kicking the can down the road becomes a viable option everyone can agree upon.

I think EEA is better than this deal btw.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Brexit means Brexit - she’s delivering on leaving the EU.

She was never going to satisfy everyone.

How dare you? She's delivering a win for the EU and a serious loss for the UK.

She is satisfying nobody except the EU who are laughing up our asses.