Will Wales leave the UK? Will it be reduced in size if it does?

It's simple. Russ is proud of being Welsh and quite rightly so. Not everyone in Wales or Scotland and Northern Ireland wants to leave the UK.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Hi, Russ. I'm not really understanding your reasons for describing yourself as a Welsh nationalist, given the view you have expressed in your post. Could you help me out here?

Broadly speaking I want the best deals and outcomes for Wales. I want Wales to be more recognised on the world stage. I want Wales to be promoted more around the world - this of course being hampered by the fact WA members have all the negotiating and strategic tactics of the 2 guards from Monty Python's Holy Grail.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Russ

Broadly speaking I was the best deals and outcomes for Wales. I want Wales to be more recognised on the world stage. I want Wales to be promoted more around the world - this of course being hampered by the fact WA members have all the negotiating and strategic tactics of the 2 guards from Monty Python's Holy Grail.

If we dig into what Russ wants for Wales is that what, for example, the people of a German Land would want fir their region? Or the French for one of their Departments? I suspect that identity psychology is much the same across Europe and any group straying outside achievable bounds describe themselves as Nationalists.

Originally Posted by Russ

With respect that's for me to decide and nobody else. I may not fall in to your definition but still, that doesn't make any difference

With respect, no it isn't. It's a question of the definitions of words. You think and feel certain things about your country and your citizenship. I'm not presuming to tell you how you should think or feel about those things. I can, and do, however, insist that in a public discussion it is reasonable for us to stick to the widely understood definitions of words in the English language.

Wikipedia's definition of 'nationalism' is:

Nationalism is a political, social, and economic ideology and movement characterized by the promotion of the interests of a particular nation, especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty (self-governance) over its homeland.

As that is not your ambition for your homeland, you are not a nationalist. Again, that is not to denigrate your feelings towards Wales and Welshness in any way. To be properly understood in discussion, however, you do have to pick a word that properly defines your position. 'Nationalist' is the wrong word.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Chris

With respect, no it isn't.

With respect, yes it very much is.

Chris, this is very much unlike you.

From dictionary.com:

identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations

There are some ways in which I want Wales to benefit over others. There's nothing wrong with that in a competitive world.

You choose to take 'nationalist' on one definition, I chose to take it as another.

At best you should have settled for us having different ways of using the word. As someone who has lived here for over 35 years (I'm aware you too have spend some time here) I'm fully aware of the skewered view people have of Welsh nationalism which may well have been appropriate in the 70s/80s/90s but does not accurately (or even closely) represent it today.

[Mr K]

Wales has a much stronger national identity than England, with a thriving language and better Rugby team
Don't think they need independence, it's England that has the problems with nationalism.

Originally Posted by Russ

With respect, yes it very much is.

Chris, this is very much unlike you.

From dictionary.com:

identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations

There are some ways in which I want Wales to benefit over others. There's nothing wrong with that in a competitive world.

You choose to take 'nationalist' on one definition, I chose to take it as another.

At best you should have settled for us having different ways of using the word. As someone who has lived here for over 35 years (I'm aware you too have spend some time here) I'm fully aware of the skewered view people have of Welsh nationalism which may well have been appropriate in the 70s/80s/90s but does not accurately (or even closely) represent it today.

As I said ... I’m arguing entirely about the meaning of words, not the way Welsh people see themselves or their nation. You’re right, I lived and worked there, and the degree certificate on my wall says as much (yn Gymraeg).

Given the way I described it I’m pretty sure you know exactly the sort of person/political outlook I had in mind when I said “Welsh nationalism”, even if you disagree with my choice to use the word “nationalism” in that way. I guess this is just what happens when people insist on different definitions of common words. You can be sure that here in Scotland the word is only ever understood in one way.

[Russ]

In which case the meaning you subscribe to needs to change urgently and be seen as greatly outdated. Meanings of words evolve over time and certainly 'nationalist' has when it comes to the Welsh.

Yes I have met the type of person you're trying to describe, it was a long time ago. Scarce then and even more rare now. I can't and won't pretend to know every Welsh person but nobody I know can be described that way given the desire for self-governance has all but died out.

If people who ought to know better want to cling to an out-dated expression then fine but they'll rightly get called out for it.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Russ

Broadly speaking I want the best deals and outcomes for Wales. I want Wales to be more recognised on the world stage. I want Wales to be promoted more around the world - this of course being hampered by the fact WA members have all the negotiating and strategic tactics of the 2 guards from Monty Python's Holy Grail.

I'll drink to that!

[Stephen]

It would be harder for Wales to leave the UK as it is a lot less devolved than Scotland. The parliament in Scotland has a lot more power and control over taxes, the NHS policing and many other things.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Stephen

It would be harder for Wales to leave the UK as it is a lot less devolved than Scotland. The parliament in Scotland has a lot more power and control over taxes, the NHS policing and many other things.

Wales cannot survive on its own economically. Scotland would be much worse off economically.

Splitting up the UK does not make economic sense for either of them. It's all based on emotion.

[Sephiroth]

On the other hand, and I don't advocate this, England on its own would be more prosperous if it didn't have to prop up the provinces!

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

On the other hand, and I don't advocate this, England on its own would be more prosperous if it didn't have to prop up the provinces!

Which part of England?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

On the other hand, and I don't advocate this, England on its own would be more prosperous if it didn't have to prop up the provinces!

That hasn't escaped all of us!

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Which part of England?

The usual part.