Britain outside the EU

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

When I say argument I mean your debating position.

And as said above a great many are travelling here due to their having family already in the country, such as the first identified victim In last weeks drownings

how did her husband get here? strange that he come without her.

[nomadking]

They are "resident" in France. If they are found in the channel, then they should be returned to where they are "resident", ie France.
If any are unaccompanied children, why aren't the French etc being brought to court for not helping them? If the French have no legal duty, then surely the UK doesn't either?
Those that have contacts in Germany, will head for Germany. Just as those with contacts in the UK will head for the UK.
Nothing is going to change until you start kicking out those "contacts". Those "contacts" perpetuate the notion that if they arrive, they will be allowed to stay.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They are "resident" in France. If they are found in the channel, then they should be returned to where they are "resident", ie France.
If any are unaccompanied children, why aren't the French etc being brought to court for not helping them? If the French have no legal duty, then surely the UK doesn't either?
Those that have contacts in Germany, will head for Germany. Just as those with contacts in the UK will head for the UK.
Nothing is going to change until you start kicking out those "contacts". Those "contacts" perpetuate the notion that if they arrive, they will be allowed to stay.

If resident then they’re free to leave that country as they see fit?


We don’t have any legal right to return those arriving to France, that’s just wishful thinking.

Stopping the gangs and allowing application from the country of origin need to be prioritised.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

We don’t have any legal right to return those arriving to France, that’s just wishful thinking. .

I get the impression that some are still in denial about this, despite voting Brexit in 2016 which ended our right to return illegal migrants back to France.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

If resident then they’re free to leave that country as they see fit?

We don’t have any legal right to return those arriving to France, that’s just wishful thinking.

Stopping the gangs and allowing application from the country of origin need to be prioritised.

I don't have a passport, and even if I did, would I have a "right" to leave this country and go into another country of my choice? Or would I be returned to the country I had come from?
It wouldn't stop ANYBODY. They would STILL come. They still DO come. They are not picking countries at random. You wouldn't pay gangs to take you to "safety", but have to travel through several safe countries. You would take the cheapest option, which is the 1st country.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Least I am not being extreme right and saying lets just sink the boats or shoot em innit

Just make it less attractive to them so they do not want to come here that is all it needs. Now finding a way of doing that is a job for a better paid man than me

That's why a few days ago I said it was deflection to blame the boat people, firstly there isn't that many compared to what other countries deal with and secondly working here is to easy for them, deal with that and then only the people with genuine reasons like family would want to come but that costs money so we won't bother.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

If resident then they’re free to leave that country as they see fit?


We don’t have any legal right to return those arriving to France, that’s just wishful thinking.

Stopping the gangs and allowing application from the country of origin need to be prioritised.

Couldn't disagree more really, it's not emigration where you get to pick where you go to, these ill thought out knee jerk reactions just make things worse like when Merkel opened the doors of Europe to all and sundry because of that tragic photo, who iirc was the son of a people trafficker!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

That's why a few days ago I said it was deflection to blame the boat people, firstly there isn't that many compared to what other countries deal with and secondly working here is to easy for them, deal with that and then only the people with genuine reasons like family would want to come but that costs money so we won't bother.

ID cards may reduce people coming here on student visas etc then just disappearing off the radar. But that's costly and may not go down well in the UK.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

ID cards may reduce people coming here on student visas etc then just disappearing off the radar. But that's costly and may not go down well in the UK.

Well perhaps instead of trying to be all things to all people the government should be straight and ask people what they prefer, ID cards or immigrants, I'm guessing they'll go for the former seeing as we didn't much like white, Christians, brown Muslims are unlikely to fare better

[nomadking]

So exactly which country on this planet, could I and hundreds of thousands of my "own kind", suddenly turn up with no money, with an expectation to be given everything(housing etc), without anybody grumbling about it.

[Carth]

It's sod all to do with Brexit - they were coming in droves even before that - and ID cards will simply give traffickers and forgers the chance to make even more money.

True we have no legal right to send them back under the 'Dublin' rule, but we can (apparently) return them by other means . . although probably not to France.

Do the French have a legal right to prevent refugees/migrants/asylum seekers from leaving the country?

Does Poland have a legal right to prevent refugees/migrants/asylum seekers from entering the country?

Have refugees/migrants/asylum seekers now become the new 'gypsies' with rules and regulations that give them rights and protection above the 'ordinary' citizen?

When will Dominic Cummings appear on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' and share even more revelations about Boris?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Stopping the gangs and allowing application from the country of origin need to be prioritised.

I agree with you on that. They’ve managed to track down the gang responsible for the recent drownings, so it’s certainly possible. We need a lot more determination to track down and prosecute the rest.

As for the French, they seem to be making only half-hearted attempts to stop the migrants. We may as well save that £54m and use it to speed up deportations.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Carth

It's sod all to do with Brexit - they were coming in droves even before that - and ID cards will simply give traffickers and forgers the chance to make even more money.

True we have no legal right to send them back under the 'Dublin' rule, but we can (apparently) return them by other means . . although probably not to France.

Do the French have a legal right to prevent refugees/migrants/asylum seekers from leaving the country?

Does Poland have a legal right to prevent refugees/migrants/asylum seekers from entering the country?

Have refugees/migrants/asylum seekers now become the new 'gypsies' with rules and regulations that give them rights and protection above the 'ordinary' citizen?

When will Dominic Cummings appear on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' and share even more revelations about Boris?

Spot on.

Originally Posted by nomadking

So exactly which country on this planet, could I and hundreds of thousands of my "own kind", suddenly turn up with no money, with an expectation to be given everything(housing etc), without anybody grumbling about it.

What is your "own kind"?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I agree with you on that. They’ve managed to track down the gang responsible for the recent drownings, so it’s certainly possible. We need a lot more determination to track down and prosecute the rest.

As for the French, they seem to be making only half-hearted attempts to stop the migrants. We may as well save that £54m and use it to speed up deportations.

‘They seem’ being the operative words here, how many have the French allowed to leave vs how many have been stopped by French authorities ?

Successive governments are going round in circles doing largely the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Iirc that’s the definition of insanity

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

We don’t have any legal right to return those arriving to France, that’s just wishful thinking.

Correct, it’s not really France’s problem.

Any persons that land on the beach should be taken to an assessment facility where their claim to asylum can be heard and judged.

Those with a valid claim can stay.

Those that are Illegal immigrants should be deported back to their country of origin immediately, without right to appeal and not France.

They should not be allowed to leave said facility until their claim has been decided

Only when word gets out that the U.K. has a very strict admittance policy and only those with a valid claim of “asylum” can stay, or those that have followed a legal immigration route can stay. The chancers may take their chances elsewhere or end up back in Iraq or Syria or wherever.