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Britain outside the EU
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:19   #3121
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
It makes no sense to apply for asylum in the UK when you're in another safe country. That's why France is in the wrong to tacitly allow the migrants to leave France for the UK. Perfidious or what?
So, why not allow those wanting to come here to claim in their originating countries ?
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:25   #3122
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Yeah, but it's not false or manufactured story though is it? is it your position that the French police are not letting migrants set off in boats? There are plenty of other photos (one in the previous post) that show the French police watching migrants set off.

The question is, which you have dodged twice, do the French have a at least a moral, if not legal (not sure about that) duty to prevent them?
And they are trying - the French have the same issue we have with catching them landing in the UK; there is a lot of coastline to monitor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59412329
Quote:
Since the start of 2021, he said, 1,552 smugglers had been arrested in northern France and 44 smuggler networks dismantled.

Despite this, 47,000 attempted Channel crossings to the UK took place this year and 7,800 migrants rescued, Mr Macron added.


---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
tsk tsk . . sodding media eh, fabricating photos to make us think migrants are rushing out to sea in flimsy dinghies



. . thank the lord we're not fooled
Oh look! You appear to have missed the point...

No one has said there isn't a migrant problem - but you knew that...
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:26   #3123
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
So, why not allow those wanting to come here to claim in their originating countries ?
I'm possibly (some would suggest usually) wrong, but isn't this what many countries are now pushing for?
I think I read somewhere about the EU throwing money around to build 'immigration center' type places in or near the country of origin to cut down on the migration of people and do it 'in situ' as it were.


edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post

No one has said there isn't a migrant problem - but you knew that...

We all know it, and have done for quite some time, pity all that gets done is even more talk about who's fault it is and how 'rules & regulations' prevent any meaningful answers

Last edited by Carth; 25-11-2021 at 12:30.
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:31   #3124
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
I'm possibly (some would suggest usually) wrong, but isn't this what many countries are now pushing for?
I think I read somewhere about the EU throwing money around to build 'immigration center' type places in or near the country of origin to cut down on the migration of people and do it 'in situ' as it were.

If true, I'm amazed it's taken twenty years of variations of these ongoings for countries to get this lightbulb moment.
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:39   #3125
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Unfortunately, it's only a small part of the problem...

https://news.sky.com/story/record-mi...in-uk-12383928
Quote:
Sky News analysis of the last three years of complete Home Office data shows those arriving in small boats - who generally claim asylum - are only a small fraction of the number of migrants arriving in the UK each year.

Every year, an annual estimated average of 87,000 people become irregular migrants. They arrive in different ways and live without any official immigration status so cannot get a proper job, register with a GP or claim benefits.
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:45   #3126
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Funnily enough, I only noticed the other week that illegal immigrants have suddenly become irregular migrants . . not that it makes a blind bit of difference to some poor bugger on a boat.
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:55   #3127
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Re: Britain outside the EU

To be fair, if it was the other way around and there were lots of people wanting to leave the UK and claim asylum in France and we didn't let them, that would be a huge scandal. Imagine what the Express and Nigel Farage would say!

"You're not allowed to go to France, could you just sit here on this beach and look after this inflatable boat for me? Make sure no-one steals it OK lads? Thanks, bye"
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Old 25-11-2021, 13:08   #3128
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
To be fair, if it was the other way around and there were lots of people wanting to leave the UK and claim asylum in France and we didn't let them, that would be a huge scandal. Imagine what the Express and Nigel Farage would say!

"You're not allowed to go to France, could you just sit here on this beach and look after this inflatable boat for me? Make sure no-one steals it OK lads? Thanks, bye"
Good point.

Question:

If a 'migrant' got on a bus in Germany, and got off in France, are they then eligible to claim asylum in France?

Similarly, if a migrant got on a ferry in France and got off in England, would they then be allowed to . . you see where this is going?

edit: paid tickets of course, not stowaways
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Old 25-11-2021, 13:21   #3129
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
If a 'migrant' got on a bus in Germany, and got off in France, are they then eligible to claim asylum in France?

Similarly, if a migrant got on a ferry in France and got off in England, would they then be allowed to . . you see where this is going?
As I posted this earlier, yes and yes - international law allows refugees to claim asylum in any country they choose.

However, international treaties and laws can then be used to return those refugees to a previous country to process the claim - that is what the Dublin Regulation is in the EU and the option we no longer have since we left the EU.
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Last edited by BenMcr; 25-11-2021 at 13:28.
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Old 25-11-2021, 13:33   #3130
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Question:

If a 'migrant' got on a bus in Germany, and got off in France, are they then eligible to claim asylum in France?

Similarly, if a migrant got on a ferry in France and got off in England, would they then be allowed to . . you see where this is going?

edit: paid tickets of course, not stowaways
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
As I posted this earlier, yes and yes - international law allows refugees to claim asylum in any country they choose.

However, international treaties and laws can then be used to return those refugees to a previous country to process the claim - that is what the Dublin Regulation is in the EU and the option we no longer have since we left the EU.
hmm . . . so why are migrants spending so much money and risking their lives on boats instead of tickets for a ferry crossing?

More so given we can't send them back, there must be something more to it . . .
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Old 25-11-2021, 13:58   #3131
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Surely while part of the EU they could claim asylum on the mainland, get citizenship and then come here anyway so either way we couldn't stop them.


We do have to be mindful that some have left dreadful situations and genuinely need asylum. What is harder to accept is that far too many want to get to the UK. If they are fleeing from something then nearly anywhere safe should be OK, if they are fleeing to something it's slightly different. The threat could be as real but the goal a bit different.
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Old 25-11-2021, 14:07   #3132
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
hmm . . . so why are migrants spending so much money and risking their lives on boats instead of tickets for a ferry crossing?

More so given we can't send them back, there must be something more to it . . .
Because we have UK border control in France for ferry crossings. That was introduced to stop refugee migration via ferrys. Same as the Channel Tunnel.

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/...rder-controls/

Quote:
  • The UK operates border controls in France and Belgium. This allows Border Force officers to check passengers and freight destined for the UK before they begin their journey.
  • These ‘juxtaposed controls’ are in place at Calais and Dunkirk ports, at the Eurotunnel terminal at Coquelles and in Paris Gare du Nord, Lille, Calais-Frethun and Brussels Midi stations for Eurostar passengers.
  • The arrangement is reciprocal, with French officers completing Schengen entry checks in the UK. These arrangements are underpinned by bilateral treaties.


---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
Surely while part of the EU they could claim asylum on the mainland, get citizenship and then come here anyway so either way we couldn't stop them.
In that case they're then citizens of the that EU country and we should treat them the same as any of citizen of that country.
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Old 25-11-2021, 14:11   #3133
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
Because we have UK border control in France for ferry crossings. That was introduced to stop refugee migration via ferrys. Same as the Channel Tunnel.

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/...rder-controls/
no no no, they're refugees, migrants etc. Under international law I thought they were allowed to go anywhere to claim asylum.

Are you trying to tell me it's illegal for someone wanting to claim asylum, to actually cross a border to a different country in order to do so?
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Old 25-11-2021, 14:15   #3134
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Re: Britain outside the EU

We're going around the same arguments again and again about when and how that works.
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Old 25-11-2021, 14:21   #3135
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
We're going around the same arguments again and again about when and how that works.
Is that because nobody knows?

When/why is it illegal for a refugee (or whatever they want to be known as at the time) to buy a bus/rail/ferry/plane ticket in order to get to their country of choice and claim asylum?

Simple question . . . politically screwed up answer
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