Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

But they're not "asylum seekers" That they could have done in any of the EU states that they passed through. They're economic migrants seeking an easy billet.

Doesn't matter what you call these people, jonbxx's point is still valid. Advocating sinking boats is contrary to believing all lives matter.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Doesn't matter what you call these people, jonbxx's point is still valid. Advocating sinking boats is contrary to believing all lives matter.

Andrew, your post is in two halves.

Advocating sinking the boats of the illegal immigrants is not acceptable to any degree.

But Jon's point is only theoretically valid. It should be equally applicable on the EU side of the channel and hence the asylum seekers and economic refugees should not be allowed by the French to break UK immigration law. France should process these people and if not France, the first port of EU entry.

[Carth]

Quick question(s):

The UK boats that 'rescue' these plucky migrants from the dangers of crossing the English Channel in an unsafe manner . . do they intercept them only when they enter UK waters?

Does anyone have a link to an article where French boats intercept these same migrants in French waters and take them back to France?


@ Andrew, Hugh and others:
My suggestion of sinking a few boats to discourage others got the reaction I expected . . everyone is up in arms declaring 'good lord man, we can't do that, it's simply not cricket', . . it was as feasible a suggestion as any of the other policies that still don't work, in other words, we can't do a thing about migrants in boats can we.
Notice a few posts later I hinted at we may as well give them free rail fare? Let's go down that route instead then, everyone chips in £20 a week to ensure these poor poor people receive a ticket on trains or ferries to the UK, that way they won't be in any danger, the French will love us (well maybe not) and we will all feel satisfied that we've done our part in saving lives.

Yes, in retrospect I think that's the way to go, free travel to the UK for those who want it . . . and let's not stop there, we could fly them in from Belarus, Hungary, Italy, Greece, Spain to save them all that hardship and danger on their long trek to the French coast, fancy that eh, the UK being the saviour of mankind

A crime against humanity is not as feasible as any other suggestion…

Is that your approach to house maintenance? "Love, we’ve got some woodworm - let’s burn the house down!".

The French have been taking boats they intercept back to France.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59257107

On Friday the Home Office confirmed the exact numbers, saying 1,185 people were rescued - or intercepted and brought to shore - by the Border Force, while French authorities intercepted and prevented 99 people from reaching the UK.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/10/11/...nglish-channel

Dutrieux has estimated that 3,500 people have been "recovered in difficulty" and brought back to the French coast since the start of the year.

French Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin also said on Saturday that the percentage of illegal boats stopped has increased from 50% to 65%.

[Carth]

I guess it depends which media articles you read, and whether they're accurate and/or believable.

I read this earlier from a Nov 14 2021 article, no idea if it's true though, which is a growing problem with the internet and journalists (not to mention politicians).

https://www.thelocal.com/20211112/wh...g-the-channel/

The French have a policy of not intercepting boats once they are in the water, judging any attempt to stop the dinghies too dangerous because of the risk of panic or sudden movements that could capsize the vessels.

But for £20 a week we can stop all this can't we

From the same article.

Over the past three months France has stopped 65 percent of attempted crossings by illegal immigrants, up from 50 percent, the interior minister said.

Figures published by the French Senate showed that, despite making more than 10,000 arrests from August 2020 to August 2021 and spending €217 million in a bid to stop the crossings, French authorities have been largely unsuccessful in stopping migration towards the UK.

The table below shows the number of successful crossings (traversées) made over the last two years compared to the number of failed crossings (Tentatives). So from August 2020 to 2021 574 crossings failed whilst 507 boats made it the UK.

The figures also revealed France had arrested or intercepted 10,522 undocumented migrants whilst 12,256 were picked up by police in the UK.

France’s interior ministry told The Local: “While the number of crossing attempts has increased significantly; the failure rate remains at a very high level, around 60 percent since the start of the year (compared to 56 percent in 2020). In addition, from January to October, 1,295 smugglers were arrested and 30 networks dismantled, up compared to the same period in 2020.

Looks like the French are trying to stop people getting across.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Your post posits otherwise...

"Collateral damage" is permitted (for lack of a better word) under the Geneva Conventions (as war is messy, and it can be difficult/impossible to only strike military targets without any, especially in urban areas), but there is no interpretation where your suggestion that sinking civilians in boats can be described as such.

Hugh, you take my ‘posits’ far too seriously.

My position is simply that:

1. All migrants wanting to come here should apply to the British Embassy from whichever country they are in at the time, and a fast-track system needs to be in place to process each application.

2. Those people arriving illegally should be rounded up, sent to a detention centre where they are interrogated and then sent back to France with no right of appeal.

We cannot stand by and watch this illegal wave of migrants just continue. It has to be stopped and when we have suitable processes in place, this cruel trade in human lives will cease.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Hugh, you take my ‘posits’ far too seriously.

My position is simply that:

1. All migrants wanting to come here should apply to the British Embassy from whichever country they are in at the time, and a fast-track system needs to be in place to process each application.

2. Those people arriving illegally should be rounded up, sent to a detention centre where they are interrogated and then sent back to France with no right of appeal.

We cannot stand by and watch this illegal wave of migrants just continue. It has to be stopped and when we have suitable processes in place, this cruel trade in human lives will cease.

I obviously agree with this "posit". Will France accept them back, though?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I obviously agree with this "posit". Will France accept them back, though?

France is using them as a weapon, so no they will not.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I obviously agree with this "posit". Will France accept them back, though?

We can make it conditional on the millions of quid they are receiving from us for stopping them leaving France in the first place.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

From Kelvin MacKenzie, "A spokesman Said"

Is he taking the piss, the man needs a good hard punch in the face, Madagascar plan, only one solution...

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I obviously agree with this "posit". Will France accept them back, though?

Originally Posted by papa smurf

France is using them as a weapon, so no they will not.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We can make it conditional on the millions of quid they are receiving from us for stopping them leaving France in the first place.

Silly point here, but . . which is cheapest?

a) Give France 60 odd £Million to (allegedly) help prevent these migrants leaving the French shores.

or

b) Give the 500,000 migrants a free £100 ticket to get here safely by ferry/train.

You decide, it's your country too and your input is important on this humanitarian subject

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Hugh, you take my ‘posits’ far too seriously.

My position is simply that:

1. All migrants wanting to come here should apply to the British Embassy from whichever country they are in at the time, and a fast-track system needs to be in place to process each application.

2. Those people arriving illegally should be rounded up, sent to a detention centre where they are interrogated and then sent back to France with no right of appeal.

We cannot stand by and watch this illegal wave of migrants just continue. It has to be stopped and when we have suitable processes in place, this cruel trade in human lives will cease.

But by voting for Brexit, the UK has lost the ability to return people to the EU country they came from. That's why I'm confused that people are suggesting this course of action as it could only happen if we rejoined the EU? Or maybe you are suggesting the latter?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

But by voting for Brexit, the UK has lost the ability to return people to the EU country they came from. That's why I'm confused that people are suggesting this course of action as it could only happen if we rejoined the EU? Or maybe you are suggesting the latter?

We could turn them back if we had the bottle, sadly that's gone the same way as a sense of humour . . it might offend someone

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We can make it conditional on the millions of quid they are receiving from us for stopping them leaving France in the first place.

France won't accept this so they will invest less in stopping them and we'll get more immigrants.