The state benefits system mega-thread.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I got no idea if ignition agrees with me on what should be done with working age benefits, but I 100% agree with ignition that there needs to be something done about the special treatment to pensioners, pensions make a huge chunk of the DWP budget, and yet we have a government claiming much smaller budgets the country cannot afford.

My view is that pensioners should get the same treatment as working age sickness benefits, so increases and decreases are linked, and things like heating allowance, free tv licenses scrapped. Also they should be subject to the same housing changes, so bedroom tax and council tax support changes.

The entire benefit system is geared around giving a level of support depending on your age. e.g. the single room rate for housing benefit threshold was pushed to 35 years of age from 25, and I expect in 10 years it will be pushed again to 45 and 10 years later then 55 and so on. The cuts are been aimed at certain age groups, and of course this applies to pensions as well, as those currently funding the current pensioners will not get the same treatment when they retire.

You are 36 and you assess that there's nothing in this pensions lark for you therefore those who have earned their pension should be fleeced to support your current day benefits? Bit transparent.

Originally Posted by Kursk

You are 36 and you assess that there's nothing in this pensions lark for you therefore those who have earned their pension should be fleeced to support your current day benefits? Bit transparent.

Very transparent,.My state pension will be exactly the same as everyone else's despite paying in loads more than someone who spent their working life claiming benefits.People rather conveniently forget that JSA and some other benefits pay tax and NA's for claimants

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by johnhook

That is a good but emotive reason. It is unsustainable it is a bad medicine to swallow but if it does not change then the welfare bill will grow and grow no matter what cuts are made

The state made a promise to them 'cradle to grave'. To renege on that promise would be shameful.
I'm 47 but I don't expect much or any pension when i retire in spite of paying national insurance. I have been forewarned and am taking steps to provide for myself in retirement unlike people who are pensioners atm.

[johnhook]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

The state made a promise to them 'cradle to grave'. To renege on that promise would be shameful.
I'm 47 but I don't expect much or any pension when i retire in spite of paying national insurance. I have been forewarned and am taking steps to provide for myself in retirement unlike people who are pensioners atm.

to keep the facts from the public is also

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Kursk

You are 36 and you assess that there's nothing in this pensions lark for you therefore those who have earned their pension should be fleeced to support your current day benefits? Bit transparent.

I currently claim no unemployment benefits, just get some DLA.

No i dont have the same outlook as you, where #1 comes first.

Someone who is 64 and unemployed would be labeled as a undeserving scrounger by tory ministers but then he turns 65 (or whatever the pension age is) and suddenly he is a well deserving pensioner, what is all that about?

The fact is, if everyone is in austerity together then everyone should be treated the same in terms of cuts etc.

The modern world for the young adult.

zero hour contracts
record house prices in comparison to average income levels
annual reduction of state assistance
university loans that are to be paid back vs grants
lack of new council housing for secure renting.

The average age of shareholders for the multi billion pound company my sister works for is 69 years old, that company has very high demands for profitability, cutting jobs even tho profits are at record levels and also threatened workers with the sack who were not going to vote tory in the just recent election (how is that legal?).

Few people are honest tho, my dad who is now in his 70s admits his generation has had it very easy compared to my generation and the generation before him.

In the past 5 years I have actually donated more than 20% of my earnings and thats with a average income under 20k per annum. I have also gave many 1000s of hours working for charities. Because I know what its like to be working age and with no job. Not the fun and games people claim it is.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by martyh

Very transparent,.My state pension will be exactly the same as everyone else's despite paying in loads more than someone who spent their working life claiming benefits.People rather conveniently forget that JSA and some other benefits pay tax and NA's for claimants

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I currently claim no unemployment benefits, just get some DLA.

No i dont have the same outlook as you, where #1 comes first.

I receive no benefits whatsoever but I am more than happy for those who need support to receive it.

Yes, these are difficult times for young people but I can't think of a decade when everything was hunky dory - today's 'cushy' pensioners have had their own share of tough times. Do you think they delighted in war or power cuts or luncheon meat or rationing, no double glazing, no wii, no x-box?

As for your Dad, the poor old bloke is probably punch drunk from you moaning about what a tough life you're having...

[Chrysalis]

Some information regarding expenditure and cuts.

social loans scrapped - the last 7 years of its use were self funded, and 4 of the 7 years were budget surplus by over 6 figures.

2013 figures

state pensions 74.22 billion (close to 50% of total DWP budget). - no cuts
DLA 12billion - apparently unaffordable - cut for working age, pensioners and ex armed forces excluded
ESA 4.8 billion still been targeted for more cuts is less than 10% of pension budget
JSA I think similar to ESA just under 5 billion - (picture is heavily compressed) - targeted very heavily for cuts especially for under 25s

There is of course budgets such as housing benefits which are a complete minefield as its split across all age groups as well as many full time employed people, and a lot of housing benefit expenditure goes into private landlord pockets as well.

[Kursk]

TBH this has all been done to death in this thread. Its the DLA bit that gets your goat isn't it?

[Chrysalis]

actually no.

DLA is often paid to people who have other income, so the changes arent so serious as the ESA/JSA stuff.

Is the changes to housing and unemployment benefits that goats me. so you guessed wrong, you have that mentality that because you are self serving I must be, whilst I have issues with how DLA changes have been managed, I wouldnt have an issue if pensioners and all parts of the country were under the same conditions.

I would say the #1 issue that goats me out of everything perhaps even more than workfare is pensioners currently.

[johnhook]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Some information regarding expenditure and cuts.

social loans scrapped - the last 7 years of its use were self funded, and 4 of the 7 years were budget surplus by over 6 figures.

2013 figures

state pensions 74.22 billion (close to 50% of total DWP budget). - no cuts
DLA 12billion - apparently unaffordable - cut for working age, pensioners and ex armed forces excluded
ESA 4.8 billion still been targeted for more cuts is less than 10% of pension budget
JSA I think similar to ESA just under 5 billion - (picture is heavily compressed) - targeted very heavily for cuts especially for under 25s

There is of course budgets such as housing benefits which are a complete minefield as its split across all age groups as well as many full time employed people, and a lot of housing benefit expenditure goes into private landlord pockets as well.

JSA has dropped to under 3 billion iirc. No one is interested in the harsh reality of the State pension just wait 5 years the poor and sick will be on pennies and dying and the state pension will have risen again by more than the cuts have saved. The State pensions figures now are 88 billion a rise of over the 12 billion wanted in cuts over 2 years. If this follows in 15 years the state pension will be more than the whole welfare budget is now

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

actually no.

DLA is often paid to people who have other income, so the changes arent so serious as the ESA/JSA stuff.

Is the changes to housing and unemployment benefits that goats me. so you guessed wrong, you have that mentality that because you are self serving I must be, whilst I have issues with how DLA changes have been managed, I wouldnt have an issue if pensioners and all parts of the country were under the same conditions.

I would say the #1 issue that goats me out of everything perhaps even more than workfare is pensioners currently.

Not for the first time on this forum I am wrongly accused. In this instance, you call me self serving. How am I self served by supporting pensioners whose income is earned (I am not a pensioner)?; how am I self served by suggesting that benefits need to be targeted toward those in need? (I receive no benefits).

No, it is simply this: there are people who feel their 'predicament' is just not fair and that their situation can be alleviated at the expense of others. In this case, the target is older people. The truly self serving people are those who would bleed their grandmother and grandfather of the modest income that allows them to enjoy their old age with dignity.

It's just as well there are systems in place to protect the defenceless from a youth that expects their needs to be satiated immediately.

Like Ramrod says there is plenty of time for you to provide for yourself if you are concerned about the cost of future pensions and anyway, you never know who might try to take it away from you just when you are relying upon it.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Not for the first time on this forum I am wrongly accused. In this instance, you call me self serving. How am I self served by supporting pensioners whose income is earned (I am not a pensioner)?; how am I self served by suggesting that benefits need to be targeted toward those in need? (I receive no benefits).

No, it is simply this: there are people who feel their 'predicament' is just not fair and that their situation can be alleviated at the expense of others. In this case, the target is older people. The truly self serving people are those who would bleed their grandmother and grandfather of the modest income that allows them to enjoy their old age with dignity.

It's just as well there are systems in place to protect the defenceless from a youth that expects their needs to be satiated immediately.

Like Ramrod says there is plenty of time for you to provide for yourself if you are concerned about the cost of future pensions and anyway, you never know who might try to take it away from you just when you are relying upon it.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by johnhook

JSA has dropped to under 3 billion iirc. No one is interested in the harsh reality of the State pension just wait 5 years the poor and sick will be on pennies and dying and the state pension will have risen again by more than the cuts have saved. The State pensions figures now are 88 billion a rise of over the 12 billion wanted in cuts over 2 years. If this follows in 15 years the state pension will be more than the whole welfare budget is now

yep I couldnt find more recent figures so just posted those, but as you said the gap has widened.

---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Kursk

Not for the first time on this forum I am wrongly accused. In this instance, you call me self serving. How am I self served by supporting pensioners whose income is earned (I am not a pensioner)?; how am I self served by suggesting that benefits need to be targeted toward those in need? (I receive no benefits).

No, it is simply this: there are people who feel their 'predicament' is just not fair and that their situation can be alleviated at the expense of others. In this case, the target is older people. The truly self serving people are those who would bleed their grandmother and grandfather of the modest income that allows them to enjoy their old age with dignity.

It's just as well there are systems in place to protect the defenceless from a youth that expects their needs to be satiated immediately.

Like Ramrod says there is plenty of time for you to provide for yourself if you are concerned about the cost of future pensions and anyway, you never know who might try to take it away from you just when you are relying upon it.

we need to get away from all this earned nonsense.

you talk as if no young people earn their income and pay taxes.

you talk as if every single pensioner has worked for the full duration of their working age.

you talk as if what you earned is the most important thing (when it isnt).

Again your post proves you only thinking about yourself, you just said it, you have the belief because you worked hard, then that is more important than everything else.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Some information regarding expenditure and cuts.

social loans scrapped - the last 7 years of its use were self funded, and 4 of the 7 years were budget surplus by over 6 figures.

2013 figures

state pensions 74.22 billion (close to 50% of total DWP budget). - no cuts
DLA 12billion - apparently unaffordable - cut for working age, pensioners and ex armed forces excluded
ESA 4.8 billion still been targeted for more cuts is less than 10% of pension budget
JSA I think similar to ESA just under 5 billion - (picture is heavily compressed) - targeted very heavily for cuts especially for under 25s

There is of course budgets such as housing benefits which are a complete minefield as its split across all age groups as well as many full time employed people, and a lot of housing benefit expenditure goes into private landlord pockets as well.

Bimey you really got it in for pensioners ain't ya

You do realise that a lot of these hateful private landlords are using their property to fund their retirement so they aren't so reliant on state benefits.I suppose every shop from Tesco to the local corner shop should be dragged through the mud as well for daring to make a profit off the backs of the unemployed and disabled

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

we need to get away from all this earned nonsense.

.

That is your problem right there ,you see no importance in earning the help the state provides .In your own words it's 'nonesense'

[johnhook]

Originally Posted by martyh

Bimey you really got it in for pensioners ain't ya

You do realise that a lot of these hateful private landlords are using their property to fund their retirement so they aren't so reliant on state benefits.I suppose every shop from Tesco to the local corner shop should be dragged through the mud as well for daring to make a profit off the backs of the unemployed and disabled

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------



That is your problem right there ,you see no importance in earning the help the state provides .In your own words it's 'nonesense'

bet you they will all take it though