[Merged] Where is HD from NTL? When?

[Horizon]

....but that's the point I'm making. All stuff on here is just speculation. It may be right, it may be wrong. What's fact, according to the press release last year (copied below) is that ntl are going to release a mpeg4 pvr at some time....

Possibly, speculating (disclaimer over) I think that ntl might release the Telewest tv drive to hard core nutters like ourselves in time for the World Cup in hd. But as said elsewhere on this forum, the Telewest boxes were made for Telewest's network, not ntl's, so is probably unlikely. Plus there probably wouldn't be enough to go around.

As for pricing, I think, guessing (disclaimer over...) that there will be two options. Monthly rental or an up-front fee of about £300 (which seems reasonable to me) payable to ntl directly or the "friendly" folks at Dixons. What would make me walk away from the ntl pvr is if they said pay £300 for the pvr. Then pay a monthly rental to access the pvr features of the pvr, like Sky's done. Yes, I know Sky's pvr features are free if you take premium channels, but they're not if you don't.

Add to the mix, BT are launching their IPTV service this autumn. Giving customers the freeview channels, pvr and access to vod - for a price. Pretty powerful mix, if you ask me. It will be interesting to see what the new ntl does in the coming months to respond to this, or not...

MPEG4 Press Release issued last year by SA, not ntl, which was interesting in itself...!:

Release date: October 20, 2005

Scientific Atlanta’s First European MPEG-4 PVR Selected by ntl for Personal Video Recorder Service

KORTRIJK, BELGIUM/ATLANTA, GA, USA – Scientific Atlanta’s first MPEG-4 personal video recorder (PVR) for European cable operators has been selected by ntl for the launch of its PVR service in the United Kingdom.

The new HD PVR, introduced at IBC 2005, will enable ntl to take advantage of the bandwidth maximization and video storage benefits of MPEG-4 part 10/H.264 compression as it launches high-definition (HD) television and personal video recorder services. Additionally, three video tuners in the set-top will allow customers to record three shows simultaneously.

“We look forward to offering cable customers the combination of MPEG-4 PVR and high quality Video on Demand services in 2006,” said Shai Weiss, managing director of ntl’s Consumer Products division. “We wanted to leverage both this new technology and Scientific Atlanta’s extensive PVR experience to enable us to deploy a first-of-its-kind MPEG-4 PVR platform for the UK cable customers.”

The innovative video services featured in the Scientific Atlanta PVR, along with its Euro-DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem capabilities, will make this set-top a significant addition to ntl’s triple play of digital TV, broadband Internet and telephone services offered to cable customers. ntl, with more than 3.3 million residential customers, is the United Kingdom's largest cable operator. Its 10,857kilometer broadband network passes one-third of all homes in the United Kingdom.

The Explorer ® 8450DVB™ HD PVR helps service providers maximize bandwidth by supporting MPEG-4 advanced video compression decoding to enable them to launch HD services over existing networks.

The new European set-top platform will deliver the most compact PVR Scientific Atlanta has created, and will have three video tuners, be Multi-Room capable, and have USB 2.0 and Ethernet connectivity. With a substantial 160Gb hard drive, the device will be able to store up to 80 hours of content.

“In every market where we have helped operators launch PVR service, consumers have quickly embraced the choice, convenience and control delivered by this exciting technology,” said George Stromeyer, vice president and managing director at Scientific Atlanta Europe NV.

“Incorporating three video tuners into the Explorer 8450DVB HD PVR will further differentiate ntl’s PVR offering in the market and enhance the experience of PVR service for ntl’s customers.”

Notes for Editors:
About ntl
ntl Incorporated offers a wide range of communications and content distribution services to residential and business customers throughout the UK.
ntl is the UK’s largest cable company with 3.3 million residential customers, and the UK’s leading supplier of broadband services to consumers with 1.6 million customers. Information on ntl and its products can be obtained at www.ntl.com.
About Scientific Atlanta
Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. (NYSE: SFA) is a leading supplier of digital content contribution and distribution systems, video backbones, transmission networks for broadband access to the home, digital interactive set-tops, modems and subscriber systems designed for video, high-speed Internet and voice over IP (VoIP) networks, and worldwide customer service and support.

Scientific Atlanta Europe NV http://www.saeurope.com
Scientific Atlanta Corporate http://www.scientificatlanta.com

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Most pertinent point from the p/r:

“We look forward to offering cable customers the combination of MPEG-4 PVR and high quality Video on Demand services in 2006,” said Shai Weiss, managing director of ntl’s Consumer Products division. “We wanted to leverage both this new technology and Scientific Atlanta’s extensive PVR experience to enable us to deploy a first-of-its-kind MPEG-4 PVR platform for the UK cable customers.”

When is VOD being rolled out to ex-cwc areas? You join the dots....

[Chrysalis]

it could be mpeg4 it could be mpeg2, surely after seeing recent events (good example is the downgrade fee) ntl could change their mind numerous times on this and go either way. All we can do is wait and see.

[Ignition]

quadplay: nothing against you personally but I hope SA sue the **** off you guys for messing them about. They built a top quality PVR / STB for you and you mess them about, meanwhile you're happy to buy Samsung STBs that can't even manage an ethernet connection above 10Mbit half duplex.

It's all about the cost really isn't it? ntl probably didn't like the bill they were going to have actually buying decent kit to distribute to customers and, as per, go for the cheapest option, whcih will of course end up being more expensive in the long run due to a higher fault rate and more issues requiring support resources.

Quality pays. One hopes that one day ntl will realise this.

[McYorkie]

Neptune: VOD to ex-cwc areas? Probably not too far away now, there's only the Solent area listed on Langley side to be done before York starts off the VOD stuff for Bromley side, according to ntl:'s own list over on their VOD microsite.

As to HD rollout before the World Cup in just 100 days time, well it's probably stretching the bounds of reality to be able to adapt our networks to accept an "alien" 8300 DVR originally programmed to work with the Telewest EPG/HDTV systems that quickly. Look how long it took for Bromley/Langley to be running a reasonably identical software code in the normal EPG's for existing Pace and Samsung boxes, including two pilots of Bromley CR3 in York and Wearside areas.

Ignition: I'll second that, and add that its also interesting that since that "leak" from inside ntl: that speculated that the MPEG4 box had been scrapped, and the very negative reaction to that on here, and to a lesser extent on DS, that there's been no confirmation that its happened officially, but there's no denial either that the MPEG2 box won't appear on Bromley/Langley areas other than in postings in this thread, and no other solid information to back up either position is available apart from whats in that press release.

If I was to be slightly cynical, one might wonder whether that "dropping leak" was a way of ntl flying a kite to see what customers reactions would be to being given an older version of the HD stb that was originally promised, and whether we were happy with that?

[martin27]

Not true the Supreme Package for Telewest is 17.50 per month as of March cos SKY as always put prices up, with the TVDIRVE i just got is an extra 10 per month so its 27.50 and with that its also covered by any fault that might go wrong with the box which is excellent where as SKY you is gonna be paying in the region of £300 and after the year manufacture gaurantee runs out and things go wrong with the box or the dish or the crapy cable they us you will be paying a furtune just to get a SKY engineer ou to look at it, or if you insure it its gonna be about £25.00 per month and as for the subscription on SKY the charges are crap. All I can say is TELEWEST have been the first to do it and it works, the BOX is designed by Scientific Atlanta and the software is fast and up to datethe best part is they use fiber optic cable which transmits faster than SKY ever will and the other part CABLE underground no signal loss....Glad I've got CABLE.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by martin27

the best part is they use fiber optic cable which transmits faster than SKY ever will and the other part CABLE underground no signal loss....Glad I've got CABLE.

That's totally inaccurate, it's not end to end fibre at all, there's still a fair bit of copper there in between you and the fibre optic node.

There's also some signal loss there too, unless Telewest have figured out how to make copper super-conduct.

Although I do kinda get what you are saying, but both are subject to signal loss faults. In theory cable is the better medium of the two, here's hoping our cable company actually starts taking proper advantage.

Those Telewest prices on the Supreme package are outstanding though, I wonder how they are able to deliver Sky Sports / Movies for £17.50 a month...

Internet broadband elite up to 10Mb
Digital TV Supreme Package TV Drive
Phone Talk Unlimited

£70.50 Total monthly cost

Unless they are getting Sky's channels cheaper than Sky are this is a nice loss leader and excellent value!

[martin27]

Ignition, I think they have I'm in the South end of Liverpool, and everyone that I know have nerver really what I call a serious fault with their service, beside this side of Liverpool where I am was only just upgraded to Broadband and digital about 6 months ago so I think with the new software they are using now they have worked out alot of the bugs, besides a friend of mine who works at Telewest said they have spent a considerable ammount of money upgrading the network which they had to do in stages but now with the NTL merger they might be able to do more. But I'm happy with Telewest more than I was with BT RIP OFF's and SKY BIGGER RIP OFF's. Oh and by the way the Sports and the Movies are an extra £10 per month for me cos I have all 3 services so I get disscount. great stuff.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Ignition

quadplay: nothing against you personally but I hope SA sue the **** off you guys for messing them about. They built a top quality PVR / STB for you and you mess them about, meanwhile you're happy to buy Samsung STBs that can't even manage an ethernet connection above 10Mbit half duplex.

Poor guy, we're all having a go at him tonight He clearly doesn't decide what ntl do. Plus, has no one heard of a thing called a "contract". Once signed and all that...

Originally Posted by McYorkie

Neptune: VOD to ex-cwc areas? Probably not too far away now, there's only the Solent area listed on Langley side to be done before York starts off the VOD stuff for Bromley side, according to ntl:'s own list over on their VOD microsite.

As to HD rollout before the World Cup in just 100 days time, well it's probably stretching the bounds of reality to be able to adapt our networks to accept an "alien" 8300 DVR originally programmed to work with the Telewest EPG/HDTV systems that quickly. Look how long it took for Bromley/Langley to be running a reasonably identical software code in the normal EPG's for existing Pace and Samsung boxes, including two pilots of Bromley CR3 in York and Wearside areas.

Ignition: I'll second that, and add that its also interesting that since that "leak" from inside ntl: that speculated that the MPEG4 box had been scrapped, and the very negative reaction to that on here, and to a lesser extent on DS, that there's been no confirmation that its happened officially, but there's no denial either that the MPEG2 box won't appear on Bromley/Langley areas other than in postings in this thread, and no other solid information to back up either position is available apart from whats in that press release.

If I was to be slightly cynical, one might wonder whether that "dropping leak" was a way of ntl flying a kite to see what customers reactions would be to being given an older version of the HD stb that was originally promised, and whether we were happy with that?

if one were to be cynical, that could be a conclusion to come to But basically I reckon the ntl folks in here don't quite have the top insider knowledge they think they do...Knowing when a few channels are going to launch is not the same as knowing when a major product is going to be launched. Go by the facts, that usually works for me.

With regards to your World Cup comments, I agree, probably too soon. But why I mention the vod rollout, is a lot of things are happening then... As said on the DS forums, be a bit silly to have one marketing campaign for one product, then a few days later....another marketing campaign for another product...just guessing of course, but you never know.

[HD462]

Yes, I read that when I was looking at it when I first heard about it next year, sounds like a really good bit of kit...so not surprising if ntl does mess up and not use it.

It was announced on this forum itself, that they were using this box, so as Ignition says, I wouldn't be surprised if SA do take action if it's true. Surely ntl will have signed a contract to supply the boxes before SA would start manufacture?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...tas-mpeg-4-pvr

Question is how long are people prepared to wait, we know the history of ntl moving the goalposts all the time. You'd think if they know these rumours are around (which I'm sure they will), that they'd make another announcement to reassure people that they're still on course.

The other thing stuck me. People have said it's not such an issue using mpeg2 as there will be plenty of bandwidth released when they turn analogue off. This may be so, but surely saving bandwidth is better is possible, especially looking to the future when they might need more if they intend to push broadband speeds ever upwards.

My understanding is mpeg 2 is DVD format, where mpeg4 does for video what mp3 does for audio, ie smaller sizes with no noticeable loss of quality..got to be worth investing in. Plus it would be easier now, to change the smaller number of Telewest customers to this new system, than try to make the larger number of ntl customers play catch up getting it all to work together later on.

[Horizon]

HD462: Re your contract point, exactly. Once its signed and sealed, that's it. Unless its a Wembley Stadium contract that is..

Re how long do we wait for the pvr, with ntl its always "coming soon". I think this time ntl really do need to get their skates on with BT Vision launching in the autumn....Most people have a BT telephone line, those that have not converted to digital tv will need to in the next few years. A lot of people don't want pay tv. All this puts BT in a very competitive position when they launch their IPTV PVR this autumn. I'm keeping my options open.

Re your second from last paragraph, have a look at my comments on the traffic shaping thread. What would the higher broadband speeds going to be used for....? email

On the diffrences between mpeg2 and mpeg4. MPEG4 is just a more efficient compression technology. Things are still compressed. On my 32" tv, mpeg4 is fine. But I've seen MPEG4 HD in the states and its like great and poor at the same time... Imagine pictures that are 3D like, with greater colour and depth to them coupled with seeing noticeable compression artifacts on 60" screen. Apples and oranges really...And MPEG4 is not just for tv. Hi-Def DVD are going to use it, if it ever gets launched. Although why people would want to buy hd-dvd films when they'll be able to get them by other methods, is beyond me.

[HD462]

Originally Posted by Neptune

Re your second from last paragraph, have a look at my comments on the traffic shaping thread. What would the higher broadband speeds going to be used for....? email

The same reasons as other countries that have speeds up to 100mbps I guess, products of the future, video streamed over the internet, don't go to the DVD shop to hire a film, you'll just click on the film you want to watch and it'll play, things like that I should imagine.

Buying music over the internet, buying DVDs without the disk, just download and burn (legally). Full screen high quality video conferencing with your long lost relatives in Oz. Endless options I should think...who'd have thought we'd have 10mbps broadband 5yrs ago? Even if it doesn't work properly!

The same could be said of that, what do you use it for..email?

Not the sort of services I'd use mind you, as they'll no doubt have fees attached, and I'm always looking to cut my costs, not increase them. Plus I prefer the feeling of having something to show for my money which buying a real CD or DVD gives, rather than downloading from legal sharing sites....probably old fashioned I know...lol

Personally, I'm on 2meg, and only use less than 2gb a month normally. For me it's not the amount I can download, I'm not a 'downloader', but the more instantaneous speed with which web pages load, especially as they tend to have more graphics nowadays...must be a nightmare for people still on dialup.

The main things I use it for are forums, email, downloading software updates, photo sharing, and sometimes online gaming, plus the kids with the PS2 online occasionally.

========================

Mark

[Horizon]

I do use email, yes. Amongst other things

Your point about the 10mb is a good one. Things change and can change quickly and this is what I'm trying to say on the traffic shaping thread. I think you'll still get your DVDs/CDs from stores for a while longer. But at some point, music companies and film studios are going to say "why have all the cost of getting things onto shelves when we can just have them on a server for customers to download." Will your kids prefer a walkman or an ipod?? I'd hedge my bets on which one they'd choose.

All content has converged into one format its called digital. 15 years ago music tapes, video tapes, film cameras were the norm and all in diffrent formats...Now look, its pretty much all digital all in the same format. I couldn't imagine watching tv, film, listening to music, home camcorder films, photos all on the same device even 7 years ago. Now its the norm.

Most of the traffic now on the internet is the illegal downloading of films/tv. And what I'm saying on the traffic shaping thread is that ntl/bt etc are going to get their slice of the cake and make it legit. IPTV and other systems will deliver that content to customers, for us to do whatever the hell we like with it.

Ntl aren't going to make their money from phone calls to Granny, or from millions of tv channels showing old BBC shows. They'll make their money supplying us with new HDTV film and tv. There, got the thread back on to HDTV

[quadplay]

Hey, believe what you want guys. I've put my job at risk enough for one week.

[Paulie]

Well i for one am looking forward to HDTV, whenever it finally arrives

[Horizon]

Ok, if you read my "little" points on here, then this is not news. But (unsurprising to me) ntl will launch HDTV this summer

At the financial presentation today (available on ntl's website) ntl's bosses said HDTV will launch this summer "around" the World Cup launch. They did not say, or were asked (the prats) whether the World Cup will be available in HDTV. If I were a betting man and I am...I would say that it will be. But I think (the webcast was not clear) for the time being HDTV will be via VOD only, the same as Telewest areas.

One analyst did ask whether Sky's premium sports and films would be available in HDTV on ntl and the answer was that ntl did not have access to those services under existing agreements. No mention was made of "normal" HDTV channels on ntl.

I think the same questioner also asked, that if analogue is switched off, shouldn't this allow more HDTV services. The unclear answer was that 74% of ntl's network (I think they meant customers) take digital only services. I'm guessing here (but it was inferred by ntl), that in areas where most customers take digital, analogue could be switched off quicker and HDTV services, amongst overs, could be launched.