[Merged] Where is HD from NTL? When?

[popper]

Originally Posted by jtwn

Whilst I'm not defending ntl with the use of MPEG-2 as opposed to 4, on a best case of a network which uses a 8mhz channel, 256QAM system will somewhat still have near to double the available bandwidth currently Sky employs if Sky is assumed to have 70 transponders operating to DVB-S. Sky using DVB-S2 for their HD will mean at a best case nearly 30% more efficient use of bandwidth on a transponder; still not enough to match the amount of bandwidh available on cable.

So maybe the benefits of using h.264 may not be negated by ntl and their decision considering how we are not likely to be bombarded by ****ty bidding and shopping channels going HD and there will be enough bandwidth to hold the few channels that will be HD compared to HD for a few years to come.

for all your "not defending" its clear that theres lots of H264/avc content becoming ready and indeed the bbc and other production houses have been filming in professional HD camera's since 2004 at least, and its that content that will be down-converted to both SD and the new DVB-H (handheld) H.264 format coming across the whole of the EU and elsewere very soon.

also,apparently pace will be showing off their new HD cable box to the EU people
http://www.pacemicro.com/corporate/n...422&template=0
"Pace brings HD and next generation products to ANGA Cable 2006
* Latest products to be exhibited at the Show * Pace Expert to speak on networking HD around the home *"
"Pace will be showing its family of HD set-top boxes, including a new free-to-air HD set-top box which will be available in retail across UK and Europe from May this year. This set-top box is based on the DS810 platform - which was the first DVB-S2 H.264 HD set-top box in the World and launched the Premiere HD service in Germany in December 2005."

looks like DVB-S2 H.264 HD 'is the standard' everyones using, as we have been saying all along, no matter what the new NTL ex TW top guy tells them to go with long term....

still with contracting for 1.3 million samsung old mpeg2 cable boxs with VxWorks/liberate (they dont seem to have very much H.264 related software that i can find) installed, and thats just NTL, TW had somthing like 1 million contracted too i seem to recall, than that puts them and by default, the end-users having to finance that before any real inovation i suppose........

[crazycamper]

dose this mean if we dont get hd from ntl we can go out and buy a hd freeview box and be able to get the world cup in high def?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by crazycamper

dose this mean if we dont get hd from ntl we can go out and buy a hd freeview box and be able to get the world cup in high def?

You will need to get on the BBC's Freeview trial 1st.

Also-has anyone seen this:

Originally Posted by ntl

Thank you for your email.

ntl: will be releasing its 3 tuner Hd ready pvr set top box in the last quarter of this year although we will not be broadcasting a Hd transmission until mid 2007 as there are not enough channels taking up this option at the moment.
ntl: beleive that by mid 2007 most channels will have taken up this option thus making it more attractive to the consumer

I hope this will answer your queries, should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Kind regards

ntl:telewest

Oh dear.....

[King Of Fools]

Originally Posted by Neil

You will need to get on the BBC's Freeview trial 1st.

And live in central London!

Originally Posted by Neil

Oh dear.....

That's astonishing! A bit like saying "We will wait until all our customers have left before providing a service they want".

Surely, by the time "most channels have gone HD" most people who want HD will have gone for the service that provides it (SKY) !

Not that I believe most channels will be HD by mid 2007!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by geekspeek

That's astonishing! A bit like saying "We will wait until all our customers have left before providing a service they want".

Pretty much, it also says to me that "we are actually not technically ready, & as usual will launch a DTV product well behind behind Sky"

Originally Posted by geekspeek

Surely, by the time "most channels have gone HD" most people who want HD will have gone for the service that provides it (SKY) !

Well the usual 'early adopters' will have, for the rest who haven't been convinced the like of Sky will convince them.

Originally Posted by geekspeek

Not that I believe most channels will be HD by mid 2007!

Agreed, but you can get it ordered now from Sky, & be watching it in 4 weeks.

TW still have not released details of what they will actually be showing in HD on their TV Drive service, so for the time being if you want HDTV you will have to get Sky.

I would also put a wager on that when the 2006/2007 footy season kicks off there will be a rush for Sky HD.

[crazycamper]

Originally Posted by popper

for all your "not defending" its clear that theres lots of H264/avc content becoming ready and indeed the bbc and other production houses have been filming in professional HD camera's since 2004 at least, and its that content that will be down-converted to both SD and the new DVB-H (handheld) H.264 format coming across the whole of the EU and elsewere very soon.

also,apparently pace will be showing off their new HD cable box to the EU people
http://www.pacemicro.com/corporate/n...422&template=0
"Pace brings HD and next generation products to ANGA Cable 2006
* Latest products to be exhibited at the Show * Pace Expert to speak on networking HD around the home *"
"Pace will be showing its family of HD set-top boxes, including a new free-to-air HD set-top box which will be available in retail across UK and Europe from May this year. This set-top box is based on the DS810 platform - which was the first DVB-S2 H.264 HD set-top box in the World and launched the Premiere HD service in Germany in December 2005."

looks like DVB-S2 H.264 HD 'is the standard' everyones using, as we have been saying all along, no matter what the new NTL ex TW top guy tells them to go with long term....

still with contracting for 1.3 million samsung old mpeg2 cable boxs with VxWorks/liberate (they dont seem to have very much H.264 related software that i can find) installed, and thats just NTL, TW had somthing like 1 million contracted too i seem to recall, than that puts them and by default, the end-users having to finance that before any real inovation i suppose........

what is the point in bring out a hd freeview box if there is nothing to watch on it?

[popper]

Originally Posted by crazycamper

what is the point in bring out a hd freeview box if there is nothing to watch on it?

its called seeding the markets, in this case 'in retail across UK and Europe from May this year' .

its not just pace looking to introduce FTA HD boxs, you can even get USB sticks now such as the 'Nova-t Stick by Hauppage
http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-comput...es-low-cost-tv
"
Hauppauge has introduced a low-cost TV tuner USB ‘stick’ for laptop and PC users. The £49.99 WinTV Nova-t Stick comes with a high-performance portable aerial and high-gain silicon tuner technology for improved Freeview reception."

"It is high-definition TV (HDTV)-compliant so users will be able to view the current trials the BBC is running on Freeview to see what all the fuss is about."

the thing to keep in mind is this kit is for the whole of the EU and everywere else were DVB-T2 is/will be available also remember that its backward compatable to the DVB-T as a standard.

(the difference between T,C,S,H and their '2' extension is like the wireless 11b and the 11G difference, they both use the same airwaves/freqs but can get more data into the same space IYSWIM).

pinnocchio posted this email elsewere from the BBC
"Just got this E-Mail back from the BBC.....thought people may be interested.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for contacting the BBC with your enquiry.

We have not got a launch date yet for the HD trial. Keep checking http://www.bbc.co.uk/digital/tv/hdtv.shtml for updates. What I can answer at this stage is that we will be transmitting MPEG4 DVB-S moving to DVB-S2.

Just like our other satellite broadcasts, the BBC HD trial stream will not be encrypted, so open standard HD satellite receivers may be able to pick it up. You need to understand that the BBC's HD trial is due to end after 12 months and such boxes may not receive the full range of on-screen
programme information and interactivity.

I hope you find the information helpful.

Kind Regards



XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
BBC Reception Advice"

as for NTL and the net speed 2/10meg updates that helps them deliver not just the VOD everyones talking about, it also allows them to take a direct feed of the BBC H264 and let the NTL Broadband users take that feed for display on any reasonable computer and monitor useing VLC or a directX codec such as the new CoreAVC, im betting that although they could, they wont

infact, (i cant find the url's right now) you can buy new video cards today that have the
HD HDMI outputs on them as standard and probably feed the net HD h264/AVC directly to your HD ready TV set with some thought.

anyone interested in the BBC R&D writup from about 15 months ago here
http://www.dvb.org/documents/newslet...SCENE%2012.pdf

they basicly multiplexed 2 streams, 1 a H.264/AVC, the other the MS VC-1 codec into a 54mbit/s mpeg transport stream that was only a 1280x720 but there was plenty of bandwidth then,and today the higher x1024 can be put into the same space now.

[jtwn]

Originally Posted by Neil

Also-has anyone seen this:



Oh dear.....

I thought this was basically common knowledge. Neil if you actually believe you are going to see anywhere near the amount of SD channels by 2007 then you are very mistaken. Look at their launch lineup - 8 Channels.

I don't rate Sky One, so that basically just leaves BBC HD and Sky Movies/Sports (Discovery HD if they actually showed stuff like Mythbusters in HD which they don't). Oh, no it doesn't, BBC HD will be broadcast free over satellite anyway so that just leaves Sky Movies/Sports.

All in all it, three or four good channels leaves itself as a very niche product at a price most will not shell out for. Yes, ntl are losing out on the status of being able to say the broadcast HD to its customers but really, in terms of the quality and content of what is available, who cares?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by jtwn

I thought this was basically common knowledge. Neil if you actually believe you are going to see anywhere near the amount of SD channels by 2007 then you are very mistaken. Look at their launch lineup - 8 Channels.

I don't rate Sky One, so that basically just leaves BBC HD and Sky Movies/Sports (Discovery HD if they actually showed stuff like Mythbusters in HD which they don't). Oh, no it doesn't, BBC HD will be broadcast free over satellite anyway so that just leaves Sky Movies/Sports.

All in all it, three or four good channels leaves itself as a very niche product at a price most will not shell out for. Yes, ntl are losing out on the status of being able to say the broadcast HD to its customers but really, in terms of the quality and content of what is available, who cares?

Have ntl ever cared about quality?

[jtwn]

They air the same channels as Sky, Neil.



Its standard practice anyway to offer new technology with limited features at an over inflated price. The deep pocketed and foolish adopt, whilst the rest of us wait.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by jtwn

They air the same channels as Sky, Neil.

Who are you referring to?

Originally Posted by jtwn

Its standard practice anyway to offer new technology with limited features at an over inflated price. The deep pocketed and foolish adopt, whilst the rest of us wait.

Agreed.

[jtwn]

Originally Posted by Neil

Who are you referring to?

Your mum?

...

Who else?! ntl!!! =D

[Russ]

No need for comments like that, please keep it respectful.

[jtwn]

I thought it was pretty obvious who I was referring to, there was two cm between the actual question about ntl and my answer.