Brexit (Old)

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Depends if a third vote is actually held. Nothing is a given in this post-Brexit vote political world. Per Robert Peston:

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-16/...esa-mays-deal/

Originally Posted by Chris

Try to think of it from the point of view of a Maastricht rebel, or anyone else who has objected to our membership of what the EU became as a result of that treaty (made effective in the UK via the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993).

It has been a very long game to get to this point. Whatever the withdrawal agreement says, it is, crucially, a treaty between the European Union and a third party. We are going to be outside the EU. That is the critical victory we have won. What we do with that status - what “changes”, as you put it - is for future generations of voters and politicians to decide. The point is, British policy is decided in Britain, not Brussels. That’s something I think some of the ERG have lost sight of in the febrile atmosphere of the past few weeks.

So what you're saying is as long as it has the word Brexit, attached, and no matter what the cost or conditions, it's worth it.
BRINO I'm afraid old chap, read the WA.

Originally Posted by Mr K

So what you're saying is as long as it has the word Brexit, attached, and no matter what the cost or conditions, it's worth it.
BRINO I'm afraid old chap, read the WA.

Nope ... outside the Treaty of Rome, outside the acquis, outside the customs union and the single market. That’s leaving the EU. Whatever we agree to in the WA is a transitional arrangement to bridge the next 18 months or so. After that, we give and take as befits our mutual interest with the EU.

We are permanently outside of, and no longer bound by the acquis communautaire, and in no further danger of having national sovereignty eroded by qualified majority vote.

Originally Posted by nomadking

That would demonstrate that we have a less free democracy than North Korea. At least there you can vote without a "gun to the head".

Seriously?

In NK, the gun to the head isn’t "in quotes" or metaphorical, it’s actual.

You need to take a long hard serious look at your world-view if you actually think that we have a less free democracy than North Korea.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Seriously?

In NK, the gun to the head isn’t "in quotes" or metaphorical, it’s actual.

You need to take a long hard serious look at your world-view if you actually think that we have a less free democracy than North Korea.

Not for voting it isn't. They only have one candidate per area, which might be seen the same as very safe seats in the UK.


Regardless, it is still a total corruption of democracy to say "vote for this or else something worse will be put in its place".

---------- Post added at 01:12 ---------- Previous post was at 00:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Nope ... outside the Treaty of Rome, outside the acquis, outside the customs union and the single market. That’s leaving the EU. Whatever we agree to in the WA is a transitional arrangement to bridge the next 18 months or so. After that, we give and take as befits our mutual interest with the EU.

We are permanently outside of, and no longer bound by the acquis communautaire, and in no further danger of having national sovereignty eroded by qualified majority vote.

The WA continues the single market, customs union, freedom of movement, obeying EU rules, obeying the CJEU. We will still be bound by the EUs competence(ie legal authority).

RECOGNISING that, even if Union law will be applicable to and in
the United Kingdom during the transition period, the specificities of the
United Kingdom as a State having withdrawn from the Union mean that it
will be important for the United Kingdom to be able to take steps to
prepare and establish new international arrangements of its own, including
in areas of Union exclusive competence, provided such agreements do not
enter into force or apply during that period, unless so authorised by the
Union,

The provisions of this Agreement and the provisions of Union law made
applicable by this Agreement shall produce in respect of and in the United
Kingdom the same legal effects as those which they produce within
the Union and its Member States.
...
2. The United Kingdom shall ensure compliance with paragraph 1,
including as regards the required powers of its judicial and administrative
authorities to disapply inconsistent or incompatible domestic provisions,
through domestic primary legislation
3. The provisions of this Agreement referring to Union law or to concepts
or provisions thereof shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with
the methods and general principles of Union law.
4. The provisions of this Agreement referring to Union law or to concepts
or provisions thereof shall in their implementation and application be
interpreted in conformity with the relevant case law of the Court of Justice
of the European Union handed down before the end of the transition
period.
5. In the interpretation and application of this Agreement, the United
Kingdom's judicial and administrative authorities shall have due regard to
relevant case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union handed
down after the end of the transition period.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Big man Farage has set out on his Brexit March from Sunderland. His massed ranks amounted to 100... (the Peoples Vote march got 670,000).
Apparently His Grace has decided not to do all of it. Doubtless the first and last 100 yards...

Oh, and they'll arrive in London, in time for Brexit not to happen on 29/3..

The Law hasn’t changed yet, it still says we leave on 29th March, 2019 it’s going to take some doing to get a Bill put through all the stages, readings, secondary readings, committee stages, ping ponged through the Lords, final readings and then receiving royal assent in the space of 12 days, minus 2 for weekend as parliament doesn’t sit then. So that’s 10 days.

Also, 670,000 was not the true amount, is highly exaggerated by PV themselves. Expert analysis puts it at 400,000 total. Rather tiny in comparison to the actual leave result tally of 17.4 Million. Farage’s march wasn’t a rally, it was a walk and it was limited to 200 and all 200 turned up, despite what the Fake News Media stated.

The winners of a Democratic vote shouldn’t need to protest. And the Democratic test was passed in 2016 via the ballot box, that’s how we really measure the nations desires, leave won by over a million more votes!

So march away, come back when you have over 17.4 Million.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

The Law hasn’t changed yet, it still says we leave on 29th March, 2019 it’s going to take some doing to get a Bill put through all the stages, readings, secondary readings, committee stages, ping ponged through the Lords, final readings and then receiving royal assent in the space of 12 days, minus 2 for weekend as parliament doesn’t sit then. So that’s 10 days.

Also, 670,000 was not the true amount, is highly exaggerated by PV themselves. Expert analysis puts it at 400,000 total. Rather tiny in comparison to the actual leave result tally of 17.4 Million. Farage’s march wasn’t a rally, it was a walk and it was limited to 200 and all 200 turned up, despite what the Fake News Media stated.

The winners of a Democratic vote shouldn’t need to protest. And the Democratic test was passed in 2016 via the ballot box, that’s how we really measure the nations desires, leave won by over a million more votes!

So march away, come back when you have over 17.4 Million.

I think the UK legislature can move quickly when it wants to. Let's see what happens, with Brexit you can never be sure one way or t'other!
I'm not sure comparing marchers to voters has any logic to it; likewise comparing the numbers willing to walk 20 miles a day for ten days or more takes more commitment and fitness than a half-day walk round London.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Not for voting it isn't. They only have one candidate per area, which might be seen the same as very safe seats in the UK.


Regardless, it is still a total corruption of democracy to say "vote for this or else something worse will be put in its place".

---------- Post added at 01:12 ---------- Previous post was at 00:55 ----------


The WA continues the single market, customs union, freedom of movement, obeying EU rules, obeying the CJEU. We will still be bound by the EUs competence(ie legal authority).

The WA is a time-limited treaty between the EU and a third party. Under its provisions, we are no longer members of the EU and are following its rules in order to allow an orderly transition.

As I said - which you have curiously ignored - getting us out of the EU has been a long game. It will continue to be so, in part because of the very complexities that many of us have long argued have effectively eroded our sovereignty in practice.

Securing a referendum was the first major victory. Winning it was the second. Leaving the EU is the third. After that, we are free to chart our own course and to diverge from the EU, over time, where it benefits us. This is a freedom we do not presently have, but which we soon will.

[RichardCoulter]

According to Radio 4, within the last five minutes, Esther McVey (leaver) has said that if there is enough support for her, she will be standing at the next Tory leadership contest.

[Hom3r]

This is Brexit related to bear with me.

When we have a next election I predict that Labour will not be in governemt ot opposion, but the will be virtually wiped out.

Last week on Radio 5 Live they were talking to voters from Labour strongholds up north, many people in these areas will not vote or never vote again, and they were Labour voters.

I have not seen any BBC program since 9am on Thursday as they seem so anti Brexit.

The final nail in the coffin was when they didn't shoot down or challenge some bint who wanted another referendum beacause and i Quote "Because those old people who voted to leave will more than like be dead, and those who were to young to vote and wanted to remain can now vote"

If my radio at work wasn't so expensive I would have launched it.

Strange they got Brexit support in a vox pop in a Brexit supporting area, at a time of day when most people would be at work..

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Strange they got Brexit support in a vox pop in a Brexit supporting area, at a time of day when most people would be at work..

Since the invention of the telephone any one can phone into a radio show for an interview even if they are at work .

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

The final nail in the coffin was when they didn't shoot down or challenge some bint who wanted another referendum beacause and i Quote "Because those old people who voted to leave will more than like be dead, and those who were to young to vote and wanted to remain can now vote"

Yes, that's quite a common view amongst Remainers. What they seem to have overlooked is that whilst old people die off, they are replaced by more old people. And the baby boomers are coming!

I would also say that the reason so many young people are remainers is that they are indoctrinated by the teachers at school and the lecturers at colleges and universities.

[Gavin78]

It's funny that I supported brexit and I work..

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, that's quite a common view amongst Remainers. What they seem to have overlooked is that whilst old people die off, they are replaced by more old people. And the baby boomers are coming!

I would also say that the reason so many young people are remainers is that they are indoctrinated by the teachers at school and the lecturers at colleges and universities.

Not taking either side here but what a load of patronising insulting hogwash as young people can make up their own minds about the world without the arrogant and condescending attitude of some of those a bit older who think they know it all about everything.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by denphone

Not taking either side here but what a load of patronising insulting hogwash as young people can make up their own minds about the world without the arrogant and condescending attitude of some of those a bit older who think they know it all about everything.

I remember being in middle school around 1988 and the science teacher telling our class about fossil fuels running out in 15-20 years time. Well here we are over 30 years on from that statement.

Schools and uni's have always bent to the left. To say the teachers in the classes never put their own personal views to the class is nonsense.