Election 2019, Week 1

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The last 10 years has not been representative of 'Tory rule' because we have been in austerity during that time. An austerity caused by a banking crisis that could have been avoided had Gordon Brown and his cronies not spent all our money on socialist policies.

Now that we are coming out the other side of the tunnel, Boris is able to present us with an exciting agenda for the next five years, which will contain many of the things that the public have been crying out for without bankrupting the economy.

What utter bovine excrement, we are coming out of austerity because it failed, they told us we had to do it to live within our means and reduce the national debt, neither of which the Tories managed, they missed the targets they themselves set on deficit reduction and added half a trillion to the national debt, for what, to punish the poor and hurt the vulnerable, the tories and their acolytes would have us believe that Labour were over spending but the percentage against gdp is the same now as it was pre banking crisis, what does that say about their stewardship, tells me they're either incompetent or deliberately targeting the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable in our society, so in the latter's case austerity might not have failed, they're not called the nasty party for nothing.

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s hardly a pointless re-run if it’s a detailed outcome vs the status quo. Not my thoughts, that was Jacob Rees-Mogg!

It’s our public services too that are suffering. The country was never in danger of “going bankrupt”, indeed other countries have in the past used public sector investment projects to drive growth in the economy.

The “our hard earned money” line is the oldest line in the neo-liberal capitalist handbook. It ignores that money moves round the economy driving demand and promoting growth. Doctors, nurses and teachers spend money in the economy.

Money sitting in offshore accounts doesn’t do any of this. It just sits waiting to be inherited, with no tax paid on it when that happens.

Jacob rees-smug who also says the people can't have a referendum on the final deal because "we might lose it", doubt he's ever been more honest in his life.

These companies want to use the infrastructure and public services this country provides but are less keen on contributing towards them

Originally Posted by Pierre

No it isn’t, this election is all about Brexit. Corbyn will be desperate to not talk about Brexit as the Labour policy is stupid.

Labour will try to talk about anything other than Brexit.

If they succeed in changing the agenda they have a chance. If Brexit stays as the focus of this election they will find it challenging.

Problem is general elections should never be about a single issue, important single issue stuff should be handled by a referendum, I myself am in a bit of a bind over this, I feel obligated to vote conservative because the mp helped my mother years ago but I don't like what the austerity they've championed for years has done to the country, seemed more ideological than anything and that's without even thinking about brexit.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Artificially makes things look better until a Conservative government comes along and has to pick up the pieces, again.

It’s hardly artificial if it’s working on an important piece of work the private sector would never be able to fulfil. Improving the housing stock has a collective common good in energy efficiency and additionally social and health benefits.

Of course nobody wants to pay for it, which is fine, but at least admit that’s grounded in pure ideology. Not whether it’s a good investment by the state or not.

Originally Posted by denphone

Two opinion polls released in the last hour.

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 42% (+2)
LAB: 26% (+2)
LDEM: 16% (+1)
BREX: 9% (-1)
GRN: 2% (-1)

via
@OpiniumResearch
, 30 Oct - 01 Nov


Westminster voting intention:

CON: 36% (+10)
LAB: 28% (-1)
LDEM: 14% (+6)
BREX: 12% (-2)

via
@ORB_Int
, 30 - 31 Oct
Chgs. w/ Apr

At this stage before the 2017 General Election, these were the Conservative leads in main polls

ICM: 19%
Panelbase: 17%
YouGov: 19%
Opinium: 16%
Kantar: 24%
ORB: 16%

Actual in general election: 2.5%

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What utter bovine excrement, we are coming out of austerity because it failed, they told us we had to do it to live within our means and reduce the national debt, neither of which the Tories managed, they missed the targets they themselves set on deficit reduction and added half a trillion to the national debt, for what, to punish the poor and hurt the vulnerable, the tories and their acolytes would have us believe that Labour were over spending but the percentage against gdp is the same now as it was pre banking crisis, what does that say about their stewardship, tells me they're either incompetent or deliberately targeting the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable in our society, so in the latter's case austerity might not have failed, they're not called the nasty party for nothing.

The Conservatives brought austerity to an end because they managed to achieve the position where they could start to bring down the nation's debt. The half a trillion added to that debt was what was funding the deficit created by Labour. The deficit could not be left as it was - I assume you understand that.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Conservatives brought austerity to an end because they managed to achieve the position where they could start to bring down the nation's debt. The half a trillion added to that debt was what was funding the deficit created by Labour. The deficit could not be left as it was - I assume you understand that.

Have they brought down the national debt? No. Are we still running a defect? Yes.

The national debt has never been higher than it’s current position, and the Brexit mess isn’t helping.

So the Tories have not achieved either objective. Austerity is “coming to an end” because in 2017 the Tories got slaughtered on the doorsteps finding people were more concerned about public services and living standards falling.

Originally Posted by Hugh

At this stage before the 2017 General Election, these were the Conservative leads in main polls

ICM: 19%
Panelbase: 17%
YouGov: 19%
Opinium: 16%
Kantar: 24%
ORB: 16%

Actual in general election: 2.5%

That really underlines how dreadful a campaign Teresa May ran in 2017. The chances of the campaign being that bad again are small. It is of course possible that a Tory Prime Minister with a withdrawal agreement in the bag and refraining from threats to steal from the pension pots of his core vote will actually increase his poll lead.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Conservatives brought austerity to an end because they managed to achieve the position where they could start to bring down the nation's debt. The half a trillion added to that debt was what was funding the deficit created by Labour. The deficit could not be left as it was - I assume you understand that.

They brought in austerity for some (poor people) and not others (rich people) and I suspect there were better ways of cutting the deficit than stripping services to the bone and giving tax cuts to the richest especially when there were record low interest rates at the time that continued throughout this ideological crusade.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

That really underlines how dreadful a campaign Teresa May ran in 2017. The chances of the campaign being that bad again are small. It is of course possible that a Tory Prime Minister with a withdrawal agreement in the bag and refraining from threats to steal from the pension pots of his core vote will actually increase his poll lead.

Will the Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist, anti-Semite who hates big business message resonate though? They threw the kitchen sink at this in 2017 and the numbers just went up and up.

As bad as May was the Labour Party had an anti-austerity message that was getting through on the doorsteps.

Although you are right Boris does have the “I have a deal” message, but will the deal hold up with Farage saying it’s not Brexit?

Interesting times ahead I think.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s hardly artificial if it’s working on an important piece of work the private sector would never be able to fulfil.

Who do you think would do the work, The Government Ltd.

This kind of work has/and is already done by lots of construction companies for council owned properties and housing association properties.

Improving the housing stock has a collective common good in energy efficiency and additionally social and health benefits.

Of course nobody wants to pay for it, which is fine, but at least admit that’s grounded in pure ideology. Not whether it’s a good investment by the state or not.

Grants for this type thing have been available in one form or another. I agree it’s a good thing and a good investment if managed properly, and available for all based on the property and not the means of the people living in them.

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Will the Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist, anti-Semite who hates big business message resonate though? They threw the kitchen sink at this in 2017 and the numbers just went up and up.

They didn’t really, also nobody called him a “terrorist”......”terrorist sympathiser” ...yes. The anti-Semitic problem has really evolved since then, refused to go away and he’s done little to stop it too. I don’t think he’s done anything in the last two years and with Brexit especially to improve his standing since 2017, and he lost then.

As bad as May was the Labour Party had an anti-austerity message that was getting through on the doorsteps.

it wasn’t just anti-austerity, Corbyn managed to move the agenda away from Brexit and con the students with a promise he couldn’t deliver.

Although you are right Boris does have the “I have a deal” message, but will the deal hold up with Farage saying it’s not Brexit.

Only for the hardest hardliners, people want it over and to move on - with a deal. This may not be the perfect deal, but it’s a deal. I think most Brexiteers could live with it.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Have they brought down the national debt? No. Are we still running a defect? Yes.

The national debt has never been higher than it’s current position, and the Brexit mess isn’t helping.

So the Tories have not achieved either objective. Austerity is “coming to an end” because in 2017 the Tories got slaughtered on the doorsteps finding people were more concerned about public services and living standards falling.

Of course they have not brought down the national debt - they have been paying off the deficit.

Austerity has been prolonged because the Lib Dems wouldn't agree all the measures that the Conservatives wanted to introduce from 2010.

The Conservatives now find themselves in the position of being able to spend money again because the deficit has been reduced to levels that make this possible.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Of course they have not brought down the national debt - they have been paying off the deficit.

Austerity has been prolonged because the Lib Dems wouldn't agree all the measures that the Conservatives wanted to introduce from 2010.

The Conservatives now find themselves in the position of being able to spend money again because the deficit has been reduced to levels that make this possible.

Urrm no, they are making promises to spend on everything and cut taxes because there's an election coming. It doesn't add up and people rightly don't believe it. Not so much a magic money tree, than a magic money forest... Same reason fracking has been 'suspended', Bozza was one of its keenest supporters. Lies, lies and more lies, combined with an habitual liar... It's election time alright !

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Of course they have not brought down the national debt - they have been paying off the deficit.

Austerity has been prolonged because the Lib Dems wouldn't agree all the measures that the Conservatives wanted to introduce from 2010.

The Conservatives now find themselves in the position of being able to spend money again because the deficit has been reduced to levels that make this possible.

You literally don’t pay off a deficit. As we’ve always suspected you are just banding about terms you don’t fully understand.

You pay off debt.

Deficit is the difference between income and expenditure.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by jfman

You literally don’t pay off a deficit. As we’ve always suspected you are just banding about terms you don’t fully understand.

You pay off debt.

Deficit is the difference between income and expenditure.

And there was plenty of wriggle room between the two as well, the true art of conservative politics shows it's head again, convincing poor people to keep the rich in power while all the time making policies against those people's best interests

[Mr K]

What a surprise, here's another porky pie from Bozza....
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...johnson-column

The Daily Telegraph has been forced to correct a column written by Boris Johnson, after he falsely claimed the UK is set to “become the largest and most prosperous economy in this hemisphere”.

The newspaper said that Johnson misrepresented long-term economic projections to give the impression that the British economy would overtake Germany “in our lifetimes” – despite no such data existing.

Originally Posted by Mr K

What a surprise, here's another porky pie from Bozza....
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...johnson-column

It's an aspiration...