02-11-2019, 18:12
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#151
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
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Posts: 42,094
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
A 'sect'? This is the only party (apart from Brexit) that is determined to deliver on the result of the referendum.
That word is more appropriate to describe Corbyn's Labour Party.
---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------
Thank you for correcting, but it wasn't clear in that article that he was an ex-MP, just that he was an ex-Tory MP.
Incidentally, your assumption that some of those who voted Conservative last time were oldies and have died off only to be replaced by younger socialist-minded people has received a bit of a knock.
According to newspaper reports, the age at which a voter was more likely to have voted Tory than Labour, is now 40, down from 47 at the 2017 election.
This is the finding of a MORI poll. As well as that, a YouGov poll has revealed that Labour has lost many young voters since the last election, most notably to the Green Party.
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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ividing-britai
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02-11-2019, 18:24
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#152
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
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Posts: 7,862
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
It’s hardly a pointless re-run if it’s a detailed outcome vs the status quo. Not my thoughts, that was Jacob Rees-Mogg!
It’s our public services too that are suffering. The country was never in danger of “going bankrupt”, indeed other countries have in the past used public sector investment projects to drive growth in the economy.
The “our hard earned money” line is the oldest line in the neo-liberal capitalist handbook. It ignores that money moves round the economy driving demand and promoting growth. Doctors, nurses and teachers spend money in the economy.
Money sitting in offshore accounts doesn’t do any of this. It just sits waiting to be inherited, with no tax paid on it when that happens.
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Labour was borrowing way back in 2002, when the economy was supposedly doing well. They also deferred borrowing by using PFI on an epic scale. If the same levels of spending had been retained we would be borrowing more and more. Unsustainable.
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02-11-2019, 18:36
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#153
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,339
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
Labour was borrowing way back in 2002, when the economy was supposedly doing well. They also deferred borrowing by using PFI on an epic scale. If the same levels of spending had been retained we would be borrowing more and more. Unsustainable.
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And Thatcher borrowed throughout her tenure despite the windfalls of privatisation.
I agree it's not sustainable to structure the economy this way. However the choice of finding public services through taxation or scaling back the state is ideological.
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02-11-2019, 18:44
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#154
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Services: TV, Phone, BB, a wife
Posts: 9,130
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
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The voting intention by educational level is also interesting...
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...%202019-01.png
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02-11-2019, 18:48
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#155
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,339
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Surprised so many "highly" educated people can't see through the Lib Dems.
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02-11-2019, 18:55
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#156
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,308
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Two opinion polls released in the last hour.
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 42% (+2)
LAB: 26% (+2)
LDEM: 16% (+1)
BREX: 9% (-1)
GRN: 2% (-1)
via
@OpiniumResearch
, 30 Oct - 01 Nov
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 36% (+10)
LAB: 28% (-1)
LDEM: 14% (+6)
BREX: 12% (-2)
via
@ORB_Int
, 30 - 31 Oct
Chgs. w/ Apr
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“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
Last edited by Chris; 02-11-2019 at 21:45.
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02-11-2019, 21:39
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#157
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,031
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Labour will deliver a Brexit if the people approve of the deal. What’s unreasonable about that?
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Give over, Labour will deliver Hobson’s choice.
A deal which is remaining in the EU or choice B, Remain in the EU.
whoo Ff’no Hoo.
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The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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02-11-2019, 21:49
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#158
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Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,918
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Two opinion polls released in the last hour.
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 42% (+2)
LAB: 26% (+2)
LDEM: 16% (+1)
BREX: 9% (-1)
GRN: 2% (-1)
via
@OpiniumResearch
, 30 Oct - 01 Nov
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 36% (+10)
LAB: 28% (-1)
LDEM: 14% (+6)
BREX: 12% (-2)
via
@ORB_Int
, 30 - 31 Oct
Chgs. w/ Apr
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And another one:
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 40% (+3)
LAB: 28% (+4)
LDEM: 14% (-5)
BREX: 11% (-)
via DeltaPoll UK, 31 Oct - 02 Nov
Very early days but these polls are people’s first impressions based not on the election campaign but on the recent conduct of the parties in Parliament. They suggest that Farage isn’t going to benefit from Boris not having delivered Brexit on Thursday. They also suggest the Limp Dumbs aren’t hoovering up the remainer vote. Perhaps vowing to summarily overturn a democratic vote is too much for all but the most hardened EUphiles.
So far, so Boris. Good.
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02-11-2019, 22:09
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#159
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,219
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Very early days but these polls are people’s first impressions based not on the election campaign but on the recent conduct of the parties in Parliament. They suggest that Farage isn’t going to benefit from Boris not having delivered Brexit on Thursday. They also suggest the Limp Dumbs aren’t hoovering up the remainer vote. Perhaps vowing to summarily overturn a democratic vote is too much for all but the most hardened EUphiles..
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More likely the vote is reverting back to the two parties under FPTP. The Lib Dems announced their revoke policy back in early September.
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02-11-2019, 22:31
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#160
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,339
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
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02-11-2019, 22:38
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#161
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,094
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Brexit supporters - is Nigel right or is BJ right?
(on BJ’s deal - NF says don’t back the deal, it’s not Brexit).
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If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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02-11-2019, 22:45
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#162
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Brexit supporters - is Nigel right or is BJ right?
(on BJ’s deal - NF says don’t back the deal, it’s not Brexit).
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It gets us out of the EU and into transitional terms with an end date that cannot be extended without our agreement. It is Brexit. We can argue until the cows come home over whether there could have been better transitional terms than these but nobody should be in any doubt that they represent our exit from the EU. Nigel Farage seems to have let his EU election win, his friendship with Trump and his shock jock talk show go to his head.
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03-11-2019, 01:49
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#163
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
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Posts: 7,862
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
And Thatcher borrowed throughout her tenure despite the windfalls of privatisation.
I agree it's not sustainable to structure the economy this way. However the choice of finding public services through taxation or scaling back the state is ideological.
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But not when the economy was supposedly doing well. Gordon Brown deliberately threw money around on things like tax credits. An example of unnecessary expenditure was free TV Licences for the over 75s. If may sound nice, but there was no legitimate basis for it. They don't suddenly suffer a drop in income when they hit 75.
It's not sustainable to have to borrow when the economy is doing well. Think of the everyday household budgeting situation. If you use bonuses and overtime to fund more borrowing in order to have a "better" lifestyle, it is inevitable that in time, those bonuses and overtime will disappear. Leaving you with debts and a lifestyle you can no longer afford.
Link
Quote:
A Labour government would fund £60bn of energy-saving upgrades to low-income households over the next decade while wealthier households would receive interest-free loans for enhancements.
...
Labour says its policy, called "Warm Homes for All", would create 450,000 jobs involved in the installation of energy-saving measures and renewable and low-carbon technologies, the party said.
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May sound nice, but apart from where are all those skilled workers going to magically come from, what happens when the job is completed? Those 450,000 will be out of work.
---------- Post added at 01:49 ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Brexit supporters - is Nigel right or is BJ right?
(on BJ’s deal - NF says don’t back the deal, it’s not Brexit).
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The backstop and the political declaration are definitely not Brexit. The backstop seems to be illegal in terms of Article 50. Everything else in the WA currently has a defined endpoint. The problem is that as Remainers have shown, they are going to insist on it being extended, long enough for them to impose Remain in full.
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03-11-2019, 03:05
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#164
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,339
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
May sound nice, but apart from where are all those skilled workers going to magically come from, what happens when the job is completed? Those 450,000 will be out of work.
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So the Government shouldn’t fund anything unless it guarantees a “job for life” for those involved in a project?
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03-11-2019, 04:01
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#165
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
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Posts: 7,862
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Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
So the Government shouldn’t fund anything unless it guarantees a “job for life” for those involved in a project?
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Artificially makes things look better until a Conservative government comes along and has to pick up the pieces, again.
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