UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

<snip> And will get accused of meddling

Some would say they've been meddling for years

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Yes, they indeed do. And will get accused of meddling by doing anything other than adhering to the request as written. As I clearly stated.

You did indeed. However, lest anyone came away with the impression that the EU was being awkward in this case, I was simply pointing out for them that it was the EU's prerogative, not ours. They were only obliged to give us two years, and we have already exceeded that by six months.

I blame the EU for many things, but I am happy to stand up for them when they are in the right, as they are in this case. They do actually want this deal to go through. Not for the first time, the block is the remainers in Parliament who just will not budge and are keeping this country in limbo.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

Some would say they've been meddling for years

Indeed, but what can be more Brexit than the EU succumbing to the demands of our sovereign Parliament.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You did indeed. However, lest anyone came away with the impression that the EU was being awkward in this case, I was simply pointing out for them that it was the EU's prerogative, not ours. They were only obliged to give us two years, and we have already exceeded that by six months.

I blame the EU for many things, but I am happy to stand up for them when they are in the right, as they are in this case. They do actually want this deal to go through. Not for the first time, the block is the remainers in Parliament who just will not budge and are keeping this country in limbo.

It's hardly right to create an unwanted, arbitrary deadline that nobody will take seriously in any case. Parliament, and the country, needs a general election. A false deadline and no agreement only sees a further extension, a later election and a later conclusion to the whole debacle.

The EU get accused of forcing countries into second referendums until they get the result they want. In this case they can leave us to this farce all by themselves.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Maggy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50175914

Next Friday works for me.

Just saw BJ on Sky News at 12:27 saying "it’s a great deal that’s been approved by Parliament".

He’s lying.

It’s only progressed to the 2nd stage (a reading of the bill) - there’s still multiple stages to go through before it’s passed (it’s like saying England have won the Rugby World Cup because they got through the qualifiers - still the quarter-finals, semi-finals, and final to go before they’ve won).

Either it's been approved by Parliament, and then they can't delay it, or it hasn't been approved by Parliament - it can't be both (hint: it hasn't been approved by Parliament).

Stages of a bill in Parliament

Commons stages of a bill

First reading
This is the formal announcing of the Bill to parliament. There is no debate and the Bill may not be printed at this stage. Explanatory notes are also produced to accompany the Bill but sometimes they are not available immediately upon the publication of the Bill.

Second reading - where the bill is now
This is the first opportunity for the Bill to be debated. It is at this stage that the principle of the Bill is discussed. As a consequence the debate is likely to be wide ranging as particular MPs seek to bring out specific aspects of the Bill. This is also the first opportunity for MPs to vote on the Bill and consequently there is the chance that a government bill may be defeated.

Committee stage
After the Second Reading a committee of MPs will be selected to scrutinise the Bill. The membership of the Committee will reflect the state of the parties in the House of Commons which means that there will always be a majority for the governing party.

During this stage MPs will go through the Bill examining each clause and each line within the clauses. If they wish to they are able to propose amendments to particular aspects. Opposition amendments are unlikely to be successful due to the make up of the committee. The Government may sometimes propose amendments if they consider that the Bill is in need of improving.

Report stage
At this point the Bill returns to the whole House to enable them to consider what changes have been made during the Committee stage. The report stage provides an opportunity for MPs who were not members of the Committee to suggest amendments.

Third reading
This is the final stage in the House of Commons. MPs can view the Bill as amended after the two previous stages but cannot suggest further amendments. This usually means that debates are often quite short.

After this most bills are passed to the Lords for scrutiny. Bills which deal with money such as the Budget do not go to the House of Lords.

Lords stages of a Bill
Once the Bill reaches the House of Lords it goes through the same stages as it did in the House of Commons - first reading, second reading etc. The one difference takes place when the Bill reaches its committee stage when the whole House usually acts as the committee.

If the House of Lords disagree with the House of Commons they can amend the Bill accordingly and will then send the Bill back to the House of Commons. The House of Commons will consider the amendments made and if they disagree the House of Lords will have to consider their position again and will usually agree to the Bill as returned to them from the House of Commons.

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Next Friday works for me.

So did the 29th March and the 31st October...

But, as the linked article stated

BBC Brussels correspondent Adam Fleming said a decision on the length of the extension was expected on Monday, but that the announcement could be delayed until Tuesday if the ambassadors struggled to agree a date.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You did indeed. However, lest anyone came away with the impression that the EU was being awkward in this case, I was simply pointing out for them that it was the EU's prerogative, not ours. They were only obliged to give us two years, and we have already exceeded that by six months.

I blame the EU for many things, but I am happy to stand up for them when they are in the right, as they are in this case. They do actually want this deal to go through. Not for the first time, the block is the remainers in Parliament who just will not budge and are keeping this country in limbo.

Tory spin, the block is the prospect of No Deal. Take that off the table and, as Corbyn says, the Deal can progress through Parliament. If the Deal is as wonderful as you think there is no problem is there?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Tory spin, the block is the prospect of No Deal. Take that off the table and, as Corbyn says, the Deal can progress through Parliament. If the Deal is as wonderful as you think there is no problem is there?

Ratify the deal, pass the bill and no deal is no longer a problem.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Tory spin, the block is the prospect of No Deal. Take that off the table and, as Corbyn says, the Deal can progress through Parliament. If the Deal is as wonderful as you think there is no problem is there?

Untrue.

The block, now, is the continual drip, drip of obstructions to the meaningful vote, and now to passage of the WAB.

“Take no deal off the table” is a strategy to ensure the WAB never passes through the Commons (certainly not in a form compatible with the agreement negotiated with the EU), resulting in serial applications for deadline extensions with the eventual aim of creating an irresistible, major shift in public opinion towards a second referendum or outright revocation.

The continuing remain strategy ever since 2016 has been to make Brexit look too arduous to see through, and then to reverse the referendum result. “Take no deal off the table” is a tactic in pursuit of that overall strategy. Nothing more.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Tory spin, the block is the prospect of No Deal. Take that off the table and, as Corbyn says, the Deal can progress through Parliament. If the Deal is as wonderful as you think there is no problem is there?

Either deliberately or blindly, you and those with similar arguments like to forget that 'no deal' is a negotiating strategy.

If Parliament is given the opportunity of scrutinising the Bill over a longer period on condition that we get an election, there is no excuse not to go for that, is there?

I do not have a problem at all with Boris's deal and I certainly don't have an issue with 'no deal' which remainers have tried their best to make look like some kind of monster.

[Pierre]

f

Originally Posted by Hugh

Just saw BJ on Sky News at 12:27 saying "it’s a great deal that’s been approved by Parliament".

He’s lying.

He didn't lie, I watched the same interview, he said quite distinctly that it had been passed for a second reading.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Either deliberately or blindly, you and those with similar arguments like to forget that 'no deal' is a negotiating strategy.

If Parliament is given the opportunity of scrutinising the Bill over a longer period on condition that we get an election, there is no excuse not to go for that, is there?

I do not have a problem at all with Boris's deal and I certainly don't have an issue with 'no deal' which remainers have tried their best to make look like some kind of monster.

Your negotiating strategy is like the one in Blazing Saddles where the Sheriff of Rock Ridge rides into town and negotiates with the people of the town not to shoot him.

Boris may be a comedian but he’s no Mel Brooks. And he wouldn’t get the reprieve the Sheriff did in the movie.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

Untrue.

The block, now, is the continual drip, drip of obstructions to the meaningful vote, and now to passage of the WAB.

“Take no deal off the table” is a strategy to ensure the WAB never passes through the Commons (certainly not in a form compatible with the agreement negotiated with the EU), resulting in serial applications for deadline extensions with the eventual aim of creating an irresistible, major shift in public opinion towards a second referendum or outright revocation.

The continuing remain strategy ever since 2016 has been to make Brexit look too arduous to see through, and then to reverse the referendum result. “Take no deal off the table” is a tactic in pursuit of that overall strategy. Nothing more.

They don't want an election as they have the government exactly where they want them. Powerless. Theoretically this could drag on until 2022.

The only risk to Labour and the others, is that if they're seen to be denying an election just to hold parliament in Limbo. When we finally get an election whenever that is, they could be held to account very severely.

Boris just needs to keep coming out as the man of the people trying to close this out against a parliament that are just there to frustrate.

Corbyn's/Labour's position will become indefensible eventually.

Rumours that the ‘Rebel alliance’ will take control of the order paper to bring the WAB back against the government wishes. To either help Brexit happen for those who just wanted a deal, Remainers want to pass it with a referendum attached and others want to pass it with a commons market 2.0 amendment: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/sta...43629214932998

Labour will be happy too as it screws with Boris Johnson’s plan to use it as a tool in a general election.

Originally Posted by Pierre

f

He didn't lie, I watched the same interview, he said quite distinctly that it had been passed for a second reading.

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1...413565441?s=21

He says "what we have here is a great deal, a deal that has been approved by Parliament" (first 6 seconds).

[jfman]

Oh dear. He's forgotten about their Lordships as well.