04-11-2019, 13:07
|
#211
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
If they are working in a public service e.g. the NHS, it certainly is helping us. What they do with their money is up to them, they might have left dependents behind.
|
Indeed when people spend thousands on Chinese electronics is that any different?
I save roughly half my wages each month and don't plan to spend any of it on UK manufactured goods or services. Does that make me a bad person?
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 13:14
|
#212
|
vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
JO SWINSON'S office has reportedly been cordoned off by police after a suspect package was left outside.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...uspect-package
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 13:27
|
#213
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Indeed when people spend thousands on Chinese electronics is that any different?
I save roughly half my wages each month and don't plan to spend any of it on UK manufactured goods or services. Does that make me a bad person?
|
Of course it doesn't make you a bad person, as Mr K says, it's your money to do with however it takes your fancy.
It may make you seem hypocritical though, if you start going on about economies and global warming
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 15:06
|
#214
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,044
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...past-2020.html
So, even if we leave with a deal, it’ll probably end up as a no-deal Brexit.
Quote:
Downing Street rules out extending the Brexit transition period past 2020 as Number 10 slaps down a Cabinet minister who said free trade talks with the EU will not be 'straightforward'
Downing Street today categorically ruled out extending the Brexit transition period beyond 2020 after a Cabinet minister warned trade talks with the EU would not be 'straightforward'.
Under the terms of Boris Johnson's divorce deal, the EU and the UK have until the end of next year to hammer out the details of their post-Brexit trading relationship.
Critics believe there is no chance of the two sides getting everything done in such a short space of time and the divorce deal does include the option of a delay of up to two years...
... International trade agreements often take years to complete - a new pact between the EU and Japan took the best part of six years to negotiate.
But the government believes the deal between the EU and the UK will be much quicker because the two sides are starting from the same point on tariffs and rules.
|
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 15:10
|
#215
|
The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 11,985
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
I think you have answered your own question and also highlighted the hypocrisy of the right. Yes, if you are wealthy it is fine to avoid paying your fair share of taxes and hide it in offshore tax havens but if you are earning a modest wage, woe betide you if you choose what to do with your money.
|
I think he was highlighting Hypocrisy full stop.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 15:24
|
#216
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Thank you for proving my point. The whole basis of the 2016 vote was an immoral one: the socio-economic fate of an entire country possibly decided by 1 person.
|
You’re out of step with much of the world, where simple majority is the rule in the vast majority of cases. Where that is qualified, it is usually done so via a quorum or in federal systems by requiring a yes vote in a majority of states also.
https://researchbriefings.files.parl...09/SN02809.pdf
Quote:
Your other point also is flawed as you well know. The PR option in this referendum was deliberately chosen as the worse available:
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2011_Uni...ote_referendum
At the time of the referendum, three nations used AV for parliamentary elections: Australia, Papua New Guinea, and Fiji.
|
Yet the Lib Dems declared it a baby step in the right direction and campaigned for Yes.
I am sceptical that most of the British electorate saw the question in so technical terms as the reform campaigner cited at Wikiwand and am content that as an exercise in determining appetite for change, the referendum adequately showed that the British electorate are sufficiently happy with the present system to leave it as is.
In the 2017 election, despite the plurality of parties available, well over 80% of all votes went to either Labour or Conservative.
Last edited by Chris; 04-11-2019 at 15:27.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 15:31
|
#217
|
Sad Doig Fan!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 67
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,647
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
|
So the penny has eventually dropped. As nomadking, myself and other leave supporters have been trying to tell you. The WA is not a deal, never has been, never will be.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 17:34
|
#218
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
|
Well, that's if you believe "Downing Street says..."
Last edited by jfman; 04-11-2019 at 17:42.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 17:41
|
#219
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Given that the Tories need to find a way to neutralise Farage, a couple of dog-whistle briefings in the right ears (e.g. the politics desk at the Daily Mail) suggesting there is still the opportunity to walk away from the EU without any ongoing relationship at all, might make sense from a Tory strategist’s point of view.
---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------
Also, Nigel’s policy isn’t going down entirely well with everyone in the Brexit party, where at least one or two people think he may have taken leave of his senses.
https://order-order.com/2019/11/04/s...disagreements/
Quote:
The Second Brexit Party Candidate of the day has announced he is standing down due to Farage’s anti-Brexit deal rhetoric – just hours after Farage announced his candidates in Central London…
Stephen Peddie – who until hours ago was the PPC for Tonbridge and Malling – quit the party, saying “We have ‘a’ Brexit only because of Farage. That doesn’t make it his to destroy along with our country. I’ve quit as a PPC in exasperation”.
|
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 17:50
|
#220
|
Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,568
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
You evidently do not know or else you'd have got the terminology right. Despite all the cuts to date, and masses of privatisation over the recent decades, it'll still a deficit.
Essentially, you want to eliminate the role of the state to privatise as much as possible so profits can be siphoned offshore. At least be honest about your Ideology and not pretend it is anyone's interest.
|
I see your pedantry has not gone away, jfman. Of course I understand the difference between the deficit and the national debt. 'Paid off' may not be the appropriate turn of phrase, but I'm sure that most people on here knew what I meant.
The deficit has now come down to manageable levels, which means we can start to actually reduce the debt rather than continue to increase it.
I don't know where you get the idea that I want to eliminate the role of the state. I have never said that. I believe in a mixed economy. However, the role of the state should be kept under control and should not be allowed to proliferate. There are things the state does well and there are things the privatised sector does better. We should use whichever method is more efficient.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 17:59
|
#221
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,044
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
So the penny has eventually dropped. As nomadking, myself and other leave supporters have been trying to tell you. The WA is not a deal, never has been, never will be.
|
The penny never left the floor, so didn't need to drop - that's why there was a period after the exit to make a deal.
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 18:13
|
#222
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I see your pedantry has not gone away, jfman. Of course I understand the difference between the deficit and the national debt. 'Paid off' may not be the appropriate turn of phrase, but I'm sure that most people on here knew what I meant.
The deficit has now come down to manageable levels, which means we can start to actually reduce the debt rather than continue to increase it.
I don't know where you get the idea that I want to eliminate the role of the state. I have never said that. I believe in a mixed economy. However, the role of the state should be kept under control and should not be allowed to proliferate. There are things the state does well and there are things the privatised sector does better. We should use whichever method is more efficient.
|
I’m not being pedantic for the sake of it, however if people don’t understand macroeconomic concepts it’s a reasonable stance to take that they don’t understand macroeconomics.
It’s much easier, and obviously accurate, to use the phrase “reduced the deficit” than introduce “paying off” as inaccurate terminology.
We aren’t reducing debt either. The national debt is the highest it has ever been.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 18:39
|
#223
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,398
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
You’re out of step with much of the world, where simple majority is the rule in the vast majority of cases. Where that is qualified, it is usually done so via a quorum or in federal systems by requiring a yes vote in a majority of states also.
https://researchbriefings.files.parl...09/SN02809.pdf
Yet the Lib Dems declared it a baby step in the right direction and campaigned for Yes.
I am sceptical that most of the British electorate saw the question in so technical terms as the reform campaigner cited at Wikiwand and am content that as an exercise in determining appetite for change, the referendum adequately showed that the British electorate are sufficiently happy with the present system to leave it as is.
In the 2017 election, despite the plurality of parties available, well over 80% of all votes went to either Labour or Conservative.
|
Not so. The use of the Supermajority is common across the world for important, high impact decisions - see https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Supermaj...ound_the_world
The major lesson learnt here is that the approach the UK took to this referendum was deeply flawed.
You last point is self evident: in a FPTP system, of course the two main parties would get the majority of the votes. That is the natural evolution of such an electoral system.
---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
I think he was highlighting Hypocrisy full stop.
|
and that many, including members on this forum, are content with.
__________________
Unifi Express + BT Whole Home WiFi | VM 1Gbps
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 18:40
|
#224
|
Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,568
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
I’m not being pedantic for the sake of it, however if people don’t understand macroeconomic concepts it’s a reasonable stance to take that they don’t understand macroeconomics.
It’s much easier, and obviously accurate, to use the phrase “reduced the deficit” than introduce “paying off” as inaccurate terminology.
We aren’t reducing debt either. The national debt is the highest it has ever been.
|
Yes, yes, you've made a point about terminology, but you have assumed too much and you have taken this much too far. You need to calm yourself.
The Conservatives have in fact indicated that they are now in a position to bring down the national debt, which is what I was referring to. I've already explained why the national debt is so high.
|
|
|
04-11-2019, 19:48
|
#225
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,044
|
Re: Election 2019, Week 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Yes, yes, you've made a point about terminology, but you have assumed too much and you have taken this much too far. You need to calm yourself.
The Conservatives have in fact indicated that they are now in a position to bring down the national debt, which is what I was referring to. I've already explained why the national debt is so high.
|
That statement is so vague as to be almost meaningless...
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:50.
|