UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Has the EU done this with any other country (multiple separate trade agreements/deals)?

- A trade deal around quotas and tariffs should be easy enough in its own right;
- A separate fishing deal should be negotiated and not tacked onto the trade deal;
- Other agreements such as aviation, security, etc should be separately negotiated.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Has the EU done this with any other country (multiple separate trade agreements/deals)?

I'm sorry to say to you that you have posed a very silly question.

The EU's trade deals with other nations do not make the same stipulations as they are trying to foist upon us. That may possibly be because there is no question of fishing rights regarding, e.g. Canada, Japan. But what we have in common with the other countries, is our sovereignty.

Norway has a special deal under its EEA membership and thus acquiesces to some EU law. It retains control of its own fisheries.

Why can't you agree that, having left the EU, we should retain our sovereignty and have a stand alone trade deal?

Btw, I've dited my earlier post to add how they are bullying us. All reproduced below.

Just to remind:

WE are saying:

- A trade deal around quotas and tariffs should be easy enough in its own right;
- A separate fishing deal should be negotiated and not tacked onto the trade deal;
- Other agreements such as aviation, security, etc should be separately negotiated.

THE EU is saying:
- Everything must be in one deal because of our proximity to Europe;
- There must be a 'level playing field' ( see Irish 12½% Corporation tax for details);
- EU law is to govern the agreement;
- The EU is bigger than the UK (we should bow to them).

Unless they blink, there will be no trade deal (tariffs/quotas). If we blink first, I'll be disappointed.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Boris may be a liar - but he got us out of the EU.

If that is how you measure your political Leaders, you have a very low bar.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If that is how you measure your political Leaders, you have a very low bar.

But as it's not how I measure then you can .....

[jfman]

Pierre actually make quite a good post - something few would expect me to ever say - in the Coronavirus thread. He linked to this blog and how it sums up part of the problem.

https://www.effiedeans.com/2020/04/j...d-country.html

Journalism is missing the mood the country. We don't want blame, we don't want argument as if this were a General Election, we want a contribution to the national effort to get us out of this crisis. We want hope optimism and faith in our country. We need less negativity.

It became clear from reading their responses that this was usually because they were hostile to the Government either because they voted for someone else at the last election or because they voted Remain in 2016. They too were missing the mood of the country.

I actually found it quite entertaining really. They have, as is often the case, grasped the basics. Yes, Brexit has created a divide. For some this Government will be the party that delivered Brexit - a bitter grudge against Europe some had held since entering the European Economic Area in the 70s. It can do no wrong.

Of course I'm not counting Seph in that group.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm sorry to say to you that you have posed a very silly question.

The EU's trade deals with other nations do not make the same stipulations as they are trying to foist upon us. That may possibly be because there is no question of fishing rights regarding, e.g. Canada, Japan. But what we have in common with the other countries, is our sovereignty.

Norway has a special deal under its EEA membership and thus acquiesces to some EU law. It retains control of its own fisheries.

Why can't you agree that, having left the EU, we should retain our sovereignty and have a stand alone trade deal?

Btw, I've dited my earlier post to add how they are bullying us. All reproduced below.

Im sorry to say you’ve misinterpreted/misread my post.

I’ll restate it - has the EU done multiple separate trade agreements/deals with another country (treating fisheries as just one of many deals/treaties)?; you mentioned quite a few different deals - quotas and tariffs, fishing, aviation, security, etc.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Pierre actually make quite a good post - something few would expect me to ever say - in the Coronavirus thread. He linked to this blog and how it sums up part of the problem.

https://www.effiedeans.com/2020/04/j...d-country.html



I actually found it quite entertaining really. They have, as is often the case, grasped the basics. Yes, Brexit has created a divide. For some this Government will be the party that delivered Brexit - a bitter grudge against Europe some had held since entering the European Economic Area in the 70s. It can do no wrong.

Of course I'm not counting Seph in that group.

Paying due respect to your final sentence, I think your "some" is really "few". I and most people of my ilk that I knew were all for the EEC until some politicians over there decided it was time to move towards federalisation. True, we got a number of useful opt-outs and we would never have had to give up our right to stand away from federalisation. But then we'd have been on the rim and not at the centre, chucking our money in to help develop something we did not want.

Also it is worth pointing out that were members of EFTA from 1960 to 1972 when we joined the EEA. EFTA worked very well, especially at London Airport coming from an EFTA country with expensive stuff!

Just putting a bit of filling to your somewhat sweeping statement.


---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Im sorry to say you’ve misinterpreted/misread my post.

I’ll restate it - has the EU done multiple separate trade agreements/deals with another country (treating fisheries as just one of many deals/treaties)?; you mentioned quite a few different deals - quotas and tariffs, fishing, aviation, security, etc.

Yours is still a silly question. Fishing rights isn't trade nor are the other matters like level playing field that the EU wants to wrap into a fairly simple trade deal (which can include fish imports/exports whatever the fishing rights might be).

Why do I feel you're trying to trap me into something stupid (like your question)?

[jfman]

I'm not claiming it's a huge number, Seph. Some could be few, and still be a vocal 2 per cent on twitter, or the difference in an election.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

I'm not claiming it's a huge number, Seph. Some could be few, and still be a vocal 2 per cent on twitter, or the difference in an election.

Makes sense. The vocal minority.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Paying due respect to your final sentence, I think your "some" is really "few". I and most people of my ilk that I knew were all for the EEC until some politicians over there decided it was time to move towards federalisation. True, we got a number of useful opt-outs and we would never have had to give up our right to stand away from federalisation. But then we'd have been on the rim and not at the centre, chucking our money in to help develop something we did not want.

Also it is worth pointing out that were members of EFTA from 1960 to 1972 when we joined the EEA. EFTA worked very well, especially at London Airport coming from an EFTA country with expensive stuff!

Just putting a bit of filling to your somewhat sweeping statement.


---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------



Yours is still a silly question. Fishing rights isn't trade nor are the other matters like level playing field that the EU wants to wrap into a fairly simple trade deal (which can include fish imports/exports whatever the fishing rights might be).

Why do I feel you're trying to trap me into something stupid (like your question)?

Not trying to trap you into anything (or demean you by calling any of your statements "stupid"); we (the U.K.) are going for a heavily bespoke deal, and your suggestion is that this could be made easier if it were a number of individual deals, rather than a encompassing deal.

If this had been done by the EU with any other country, this would strengthen your proposal, as they couldn’t say "it’s not been done before".

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not trying to trap you into anything (or demean you by calling any of your statements "stupid"); we (the U.K.) are going for a heavily bespoke deal, and your suggestion is that this could be made easier if it were a number of individual deals, rather than a encompassing deal.

If this had been done by the EU with any other country, this would strengthen your proposal, as they couldn’t say "it’s not been done before".

It's not my take that UK is going for a bespoke deal of any sort. We are doing the sensible thing. Tariffs/quotas like Canada has done.
Other matters, pertaining to sovereignty and cooperation are desired by the UK to be held separate; highly logical.

The EU, on the other hand, doesn't want to treat the trade negotiations on a Canada basis unless that falls within their wider agenda of binding us into their rules & laws. Is that what you want?

[jfman]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-partys-review

Nice of the Lib Dems to finally acknowledge the easy way to stop Brexit.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not trying to trap you into anything (or demean you by calling any of your statements "stupid"); we (the U.K.) are going for a heavily bespoke deal, and your suggestion is that this could be made easier if it were a number of individual deals, rather than a encompassing deal.

If this had been done by the EU with any other country, this would strengthen your proposal, as they couldn’t say "it’s not been done before".

We would be happy with a Canada-style deal. Hardly bespoke.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We would be happy with a Canada-style deal. Hardly bespoke.

The provisional Agreement that took 7 years to negotiate, and has not yet been ratified by all the EU Member States?

The one that integrates the EU's and Canada's commitments to apply international rules on workers' rights, environmental protection and climate action (and these obligations are binding)?

The one that does little for the trade in services and in particular almost nothing for the trade in financial services?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The provisional Agreement that took 7 years to negotiate, and has not yet been ratified by all the EU Member States?

The one that integrates the EU's and Canada's commitments to apply international rules on workers' rights, environmental protection and climate action (and these obligations are binding)?

The one that does little for the trade in services and in particular almost nothing for the trade in financial services?

Just believe, Hugh.