Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S

Originally Posted by Hugh

Some up to date info

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-de...-executed-1976

Race of defendants executed since 1976
BLACK 504 34.5%
LATINO 122 8.3%
WHITE 819 55.6%
OTHER 24 1.6

So more white people executed than black.

Some other interesting facts on that site ;

The race of the victims of those who were executed ;

BLACK 330 15.3%
LATINO 151 6.9%
WHITE 1629 75.6%
OTHER 45 2.1%

So the majority of victims were white.

Indeed ;

White Defendant / Black Victim (20)
Black Defendant / White Victim (288)

There is nothing like facts to make things look bad one way or another

[heero_yuy]

Quote from Chron.com:


The widely used oath embraced by the International Association of Chiefs of Police reads, "On my honor, I will never betray my badge, my integrity, my character or the public trust. I will always have the courage to hold myself and others accountable for our actions. I will always uphold the Constitution, my community, and the agency I serve."

police_badge.jpg

Originally Posted by Mick

Wrong. if he did not do his job properly, he should be fired, he isn't immune to accountability. His force messed up big time according to all accounts and calls to deal with this Cruz teenager.

Its meaningless without knowing how many such calls they get overall.

If these were isolated incidents, then they clearly failed to follow up.
If they get multiple calls like this all the time, they simply could not follow up on them all.

Originally Posted by Paul M

Its meaningless without knowing how many such calls they get overall.

If these were isolated incidents, then they clearly failed to follow up.
If they get multiple calls like this all the time, they simply could not follow up on them all.

According to the Florida's House Speaker, in his letter he says 23 calls were made prior to the shooting on the concerns and behaviour of Nikolas Cruz, the threat he made of 'wanting to become a professional school shooter.' on social media. Cruz's own family requested his guns be confiscated after Nikolas's mother died in November 2017, the Police failed to act.

There was so many chances to prevent this shooting by authorities.

Originally Posted by Paul M

So more white people executed than black.

You would need to adjust for population numbers when making these kinds of comparsions.

Originally Posted by Paul M

So more white people executed than black.

Some other interesting facts on that site ;

The race of the victims of those who were executed ;



So the majority of victims were white.

Indeed ;



There is nothing like facts to make things look bad one way or another

Yes, but Whites make up 550% times the population than Blacks/African-Americans, but executed only 50% more than Blacks/African-Americans, and are at equal numbers on Death Row.

So if you have a population of 100%

Population % on Death Row % Executed
W73%..............43%...................56%
B 13%..............42%...................35%

This shows the weighting of Black/African Americans on Death Row or executed.

And your point about the race of the victims - the percentages almost match the US population percentages, whilst the figures executed or on Death Row are skewed towards Blacks/African-Americans.

Population Victims
73%............76%
13%............15%

I don't agree with this percentages malarkey.

If you have 23 Apples collected in 2017. 13 Are Green, 8 are red and 2 are just rotten to the core.

This argument about more Blacks vs Whites being executed is like saying there is more red apples collected.

The reality is.... You still have more Green apples, in the basket that have been collected.

Originally Posted by Mick

I don't agree with this percentages malarkey.

If you have 23 Apples collected in 2017. 13 Are Green, 8 are red and 2 are just rotten to the core.

This argument about more Blacks vs Whites being executed is like saying there is more red apples collected.

The reality is.... You still have more Green apples, in the basket that have been collected.

The percentages matter if you're looking into if something is over-represented or not.

If you don't agree with that then nothing matters. You could make all sorts of irrelevant statements. Find the smallest country in the world and say they have the best cancer care because fewer people die of cancer there than in China. It's why GDP is not measured in absolute terms irrespective of anyone's personal opinion on 'percentages'.

I am not looking at representations, because they are irrelevant.

It cannot be said 'more blacks are executed than whites' because the actual numbers speak for themselves, using percentages is trying to obscure the facts.

Using percentages is like shoving all blacks and all whites into one room, but not all whites and not all blacks are criminals.

Originally Posted by Mick

I am not looking at representations, because they are irrelevant.

It cannot be said 'more blacks are executed than whites' because the actual numbers speak for themselves, using percentages is trying to obscure the facts.

Using percentages is like shoving all blacks and all whites into one room, but not all whites and not all blacks are criminals.

The percentages show black people are more likely to be given the death penalty. Both in terms of their representation in the population and those who go in trial.

If you want to use absolute numbers then fine but I don't see what use that is for a comparison.

To use an 'example' as with the apples:

If there is a penalty shootout and I have 10 chances scoring 6 of them and you have 5 chances scoring all 5 of them. Am I better because I scored more?

Originally Posted by Damien

If you want to use absolute numbers then fine but I don't see what use that is for a comparison.

Because those are the facts.

8 is lower than 13.

8 Blacks Executed is not more than 13 Whites Executed in 2017.

8 Red apples collected is not more than 13 Green apples collected.

Are you even going to engage with the point?[COLOR="Silver"]

The percentages show black people are more likely to be given the death penalty. Both in terms of their representation in the population and those who go in trial.

I accept that more white people are executed than black people.

But do you accept that relative to their population size black people are overrepresented in the statistics? That a black person seems to be more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person. Because those are also the facts.

Originally Posted by Damien

Are you even going to engage with the point?[COLOR="Silver"]



I accept that more white people are executed than black people.

But do you accept that relative to their population size black people are overrepresented in the statistics? That a black person seems to be more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person. Because those are also the facts.

I cannot engage with any such point when it does not make sense or is disingenuous.

'More likely' is a chance factor and we are not dealing with chance factors or representations.

The same representations were made after Brexit when remainers claim the Brexit decision was not the will of the British people because they say only 37% or so of the population actually voted in the referendum, well that's a disingenuous assertion because not every person in the UK was eligible to vote and or chose not to vote, the same applies here, the US population of Blacks, Whites and Hispanics are not all criminals convicted and sentenced to death.

How is adjusting for population size disingenuous? We do it all the time. When we compare death rates in cities we adjust it for the size of the city. When we compare cancer survival rates we adjust it for population size. When we compare crime rates between years we do it as incidence in 100,000 etc etc

For what's it worth it doesn't tell the whole story. I agree. But the question is to then look into why this seeming imbalance exists rather than pretend it doesn't.

The same representations were made after Brexit when remainers claim the Brexit decision was not the will of the British people because they say only 37% or so of the population actually voted in the referendum

That's not the same thing. The only thing it shares is the use of a percentage as a measurement. You're not comparing anything in that. Do you just distrust percentages as a concept?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

I cannot engage with any such point when it does not make sense or is disingenuous.

'More likely' is a chance factor and we are not dealing with chance factors or representations.

The same representations were made after Brexit when remainers claim the Brexit decision was not the will of the British people because they say only 37% or so of the population actually voted in the referendum, well that's a disingenuous assertion because not every person in the UK was eligible to vote and or chose not to vote, the same applies here, the US population of Blacks, Whites and Hispanics are not all criminals convicted and sentenced to death.

Dear me Mick, think you're trying to out trump Trump with your twisting of figures

If you were poor and black in the US, you are more likely to be executed for the same crime than if you are rich and white. Their legal system discriminates against the poor, and discrimination is still widespread, encouraged by Trump and his Klu Klux Klan/ evangelical followers. You may love to live in the US (as an aside, why don't you if you love it so much ??) ; Personally I'm delighted I don't live there, and have to worry if my kids are at risk of getting shot each day.