Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Drug deaths up in Scotland

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Drug deaths up in Scotland
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 16-07-2019, 13:31   #1
Taf
cf.mega poster
 
Taf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 68
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 9,785
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Drug deaths up in Scotland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

When Scotland brought in Minimum Unit Pricing for alcohol, many opponents warned that many people would turn to illicit drugs that were cheaper.

But did the Scottish government listen?

Of course not.

And the Welsh assembly wants to bring in MUP here (luckily postponed due to the Portugese government).

Will the Welsh assembly listen?

Of course not.
Taf is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 16-07-2019, 13:52   #2
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,206
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

Is there evidence this was caused by minimum pricing? The spike seems to have started in 2014 whereas a series of legal challenges delayed the introduction of minimum pricing until last year.

I don't know what caused it but there is clearly a rapid increase starting several years before the introduction of minimum pricing and the article itself seems to suggest it's to do with 'an ageing population of drug addicts' as well as new drugs appearing.
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2019, 17:39   #3
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

The SNP is frantically trying to blame Westminster for reserving drugs policy, but all that’s reserved is its criminalisation, which clearly hasn’t caused a spike in deaths in England.

The problem in Scotland lies somewhere in the prevention and treatment, both policy areas that the dim-witted nats have been in charge of for 12 years now. Of course they’ve done little to nothing with the power they do have because they remain far more interested in using government as a platform for constitutional agitation, than serving the country they claim to love.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2019, 20:00   #4
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

Interestingly Portugal has the second lowest, and it went down the decriminalisation route in 2001.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2019, 21:04   #5
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,206
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Interestingly Portugal has the second lowest, and it went down the decriminalisation route in 2001.
I am skeptical of drawing conclusions like that though. It could be that both the act of decriminalisation and their lower cases of drug deaths are a result of a general culture around drugs - i.e fewer deaths because it isn't a problem and because it isn't so much of a problem it was political easier to decriminalise drugs?

That said I am generally for decriminalising drugs, especially softer ones, because I think it would free up police time, raising money and allow legal producers to cut out the criminal markets resulting in less exploitation.
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2019, 15:59   #6
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Interestingly Portugal has the second lowest, and it went down the decriminalisation route in 2001.
Also interestingly, the UK has the same criminal law relating to drugs across its entire territory, but very different drug use patterns and fatalities in the part of the UK where health, policing, courts, prisons and social care are fully devolved.

The evidence from the UK is that the criminal status of hard drugs is neither the cause nor the solution to the level of fatalities seen in Scotland. It is the whole question of prevention of use and the treatment and monitoring of offenders that’s at issue.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2019, 16:29   #7
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

There's no evidence at all to support that assertion. You're simply offering an anti-SNP spin on a story that has far greater complexity than you describe. No surprise there though.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2019, 18:44   #8
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

How can you say there’s no evidence? There’s one criminal code and two different ways of dealing with addicts. One has produced a higher mortality rate than the other. I’m not denying the complexity of it, but the simplistic spin isn’t in pointing out the difference, the simplistic spin is in blaming a criminal code that obviously can’t be at the root of the problem when the same code produces different results in different places.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2019, 19:34   #9
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
How can you say there’s no evidence? There’s one criminal code and two different ways of dealing with addicts. One has produced a higher mortality rate than the other. I’m not denying the complexity of it, but the simplistic spin isn’t in pointing out the difference, the simplistic spin is in blaming a criminal code that obviously can’t be at the root of the problem when the same code produces different results in different places.
It’s far from obvious that the criminal code isn’t at the root of the problem at all. You probably deep down know this, but that doesn’t allow you to slate the SNP.

Saying two places have the same set of laws therefore the law can’t be a problem is simply ignorance.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2019, 20:48   #10
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Drug deaths up in Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It’s far from obvious that the criminal code isn’t at the root of the problem at all. You probably deep down know this, but that doesn’t allow you to slate the SNP.

Saying two places have the same set of laws therefore the law can’t be a problem is simply ignorance.
Saying the law must be the problem is, likewise, ignorance, when there are many other factors that can be compared and contrasted with each other across the border, yet that’s what the SNP’s submission to the relevant Commons select committee amounted to.

I’m not unaware of what’s going on here by the way ... it is a fashionable liberal position to argue for reducing the severity of the law’s position on drugs. I can see it’s easier for you to attribute my argument to dislike of the SNP than it is to deal with evidence that challenges your position.

The facts here are that there is one common schedule across the UK that states how severely each drug should be regarded, yet everything else varies between England and Scotland. Making a drug illegal doesn’t make it more lethal. There are plenty of things that can be done for drug addicts that are allowed by the law. Whatever is being done in England, the outcome is less than one third of the fatalities, per capita, than whatever steps are being taken in Scotland. It’s simple logic to examine first which different policies might be causing different outcomes.

Last edited by Chris; 17-07-2019 at 20:54.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:48.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.