Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Carth

To much of the general public it always has been 'much ado about nothing', however it's been a nice little earner for clickbait article writers, a Godsend for political activists, and an ongoing filler item for news channels that couldn't be bothered to find other subjects for their 'experts' to discuss

My God! A serious post on the subject from my good friend Carth!

---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Have to disagree - I know lots of people who couldn't visit relatives in care homes, didn't visit friends/families because it was stressed how important it was to keep to the rules, and they are (mostly) pissed off that there seems to be one rule for selfish gits and other rules for everyone else.

Anyhoo, might just head out and break the law - not knowingly, of course, just for a few minutes - I mean, the laws are so stupid and there are so many of them, and they are so confusing.

Or, seeing as according to some on here and in the tabloid press, we shouldn't investigate "crimes that happened in the past", and we no longer need to worry about "crimes that didn't take long" and "crimes when there is armed conflict going on anywhere in the world" either, I might join the police - sounds like an easy life.

That's a really silly point to make. I'm sure that Boris thought he could do what he did and that he wasn't breaking any laws - at the time. The "fog of Downing Street" and all that. This is not a normal workplace and little or no allowance has been made for that.

But once Boris was on the rack in Parliament he should have taken a different, non-defiant line. He didn't and, and, having had time to reflect before being questioned, he came out with the wrong line and is now paying the price.

Truth has not been his strongest point.

The penalty notice is neither here nor there; it could have been a speeding fine, for example, and his government promulgates such laws.

[ianch99]

All you need to know:

They are still not sorry.Not even about being found out.

[Carth]

A snap poll for YouGov found 57% of voters thought he should resign and 75% said he had knowingly lied, while a survey by Savanta ComRes showed 61% said he should quit

This tells me absolutely nothing, and I wonder why supposedly intelligent people still fall for it.
75% of how many?
61% of how many?

Was it an average result of 20 million people asked in the streets throughout the UK?
Was it a carefully selected selection of people affiliated to political parties?
Was it a 'phone in' poll conducted by a local radio station with 238 listeners?

People throw this 'statistical' garbage around like it actually proves something

Yeah, I don't think the lawbreaking is as wrong as the contempt they show for everyone by lying about it, claiming they weren't parties, claiming no one told Johnson it was a party and now telling everyone to 'move on' after they're caught. It's just complete arrogance and a matter of telling the plebs to know their place.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah, I don't think the lawbreaking is as wrong as the contempt they show for everyone by lying about it, claiming they weren't parties, claiming no one told Johnson it was a party and now telling everyone to 'move on' after they're caught. It's just complete arrogance and a matter of telling the plebs to know their place.

Yep.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

This tells me absolutely nothing, and I wonder why supposedly intelligent people still fall for it.
75% of how many?
61% of how many?

Was it an average result of 20 million people asked in the streets throughout the UK?
Was it a carefully selected selection of people affiliated to political parties?
Was it a 'phone in' poll conducted by a local radio station with 238 listeners?

People throw this 'statistical' garbage around like it actually proves something

Exactly -a poll on GB News this morning said 67% wanted Boris to stay,33% wanted him to go and 12% were bad at maths

Originally Posted by Carth

This tells me absolutely nothing, and I wonder why supposedly intelligent people still fall for it.
75% of how many?
61% of how many?

Was it an average result of 20 million people asked in the streets throughout the UK?
Was it a carefully selected selection of people affiliated to political parties?
Was it a 'phone in' poll conducted by a local radio station with 238 listeners?

People throw this 'statistical' garbage around like it actually proves something

It's not perfect (and incidentally pollsters find a cross-section of society, it isn't a twitter poll) but it's better than going off what you reakon.

[Carth]

If all these polls were an accurate reflection of the wishes of the general public, we'd still be in the EU . . .


. . . as it is, they were (once again) wrong

[tweetiepooh]

Since ignorance isn't a defence Boris could have been in attendance at an event he did not believe to breaking the law but if investigation found that it was breaking the law he could be fined.

Originally Posted by Carth

If all these polls were an accurate reflection of the wishes of the general public, we'd still be in the EU . . .


. . . as it is, they were (once again) wrong

The polls were a few percentage points wrong on average, around 2-3% off. When it's close to 50/50 then that happens.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Damien

The polls were a few percentage points wrong on average, around 2-3% off. When it's close to 50/50 then that happens.

Is that an admittance that polls can be wrong . . or misleading?

Originally Posted by Carth

Is that an admittance that polls can be wrong . . or misleading?

That polling is not a precise science but usually gets pretty close. You should expect them to be within a few percentage points - what's why there is a margin of error - but if you think about it being able to relatively reliability get within a few percent of the actual result of a vote in which millions took part is pretty good.

If it was wrong the other way, let's say Remain won by 54% instead of the roughly 51-52% the average of polls suggested, everyone would be saying they were pretty accurate.

The issue with Brexit wasn't so much the polling itself but pundits had when interpreting the polls that they were underestimating the Remain lead giving more confidence to the Remain lead than worrying about how close it was.

[Carth]

Brexit was just an example, many more have been wrong too . . whether that was down to polling the wrong people, poor 'pundit' interpretation, or simply bad wording in the poll itself who knows.

Suffice to say some people view polls as acceptable data, others see them as manipulation devices . . each to their own

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Carth

Brexit was just an example, many more have been wrong too . . whether that was down to polling the wrong people, poor 'pundit' interpretation, or simply bad wording in the poll itself who knows.

Suffice to say some people view polls as acceptable data, others see them as manipulation devices . . each to their own

Think you've got good points about opinion polls, but Borris still broke the law, has been caught and has paid the (monetary) price. Whatever the actual percentage of people who feel he should pay what in their opinion is the true price is still a pretty big junk of the population and that's whatever the margin of error is.