Brexit - Page 241

papa smurf · 22-06-2019, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Aside from the question of just who's going to construct this hard border or indeed order it, to see the perfidious Varadkar squirm will be a reward of significant value.

I've had enough of the Irish tail wagging the UK dog.

It's going to be an order from varadkar to build it to save his precious single market,at which point he paints a target on his back for breaching the GF agreement,he'll be busy looking under his car and avoiding little parcels for the rest of his life.

**Hugh** · 22-06-2019, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

It's going to be an order from varadkar to build it to save his precious single market,at which point he paints a target on his back for breaching the GF agreement,he'll be busy looking under his car and avoiding little parcels for the rest of his life.

You really don’t know how it works, do you?

OLD BOY · 22-06-2019, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

As long as Trump is President and Congress claim to protect the GFA we are a bit stuck over trading with the US.

The EU will not allow a border that would let US sourced produce into the EU via Ireland. The checks needed on top of the Country of Origin rules makes a hard border inevitable.

It is not inevitable and you are simply adding to existing volumes relating to Project Fear.

1andrew1 · 22-06-2019, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I've had enough of the Irish tail wagging the UK dog.

It will be that way so long as Ireland is in the EU and the UK has planned/has left the EU. The EU will always support its members, regardless of their size. Traditionally, Ireland has been a weaker party to the UK but the roles are now reversed. Size matters, and people are starting to see what this statement means in practice.

Angua · 22-06-2019, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It is not inevitable and you are simply adding to existing volumes relating to Project Fear.

The alternatives are accepting the backstop via the WA or Irish reunification.

I have no problem with either. The DUP may have other ideas.

Sephiroth · 22-06-2019, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1;35999999[COLOR="Red"

]It will be that way so long as Ireland is in the EU [/COLOR]and the UK has planned/has left the EU. The EU will always support its members, regardless of their size. Traditionally, Ireland has been a weaker party to the UK but the roles are now reversed. Size matters, and people are starting to see what this statement means in practice.

We know all that. It rankles and irks. Ireland is hiding behind a very bad institution - the EU and they need to get their come uppance.

OLD BOY · 22-06-2019, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

The alternatives are accepting the backstop via the WA or Irish reunification.

I have no problem with either. The DUP may have other ideas.

Those are two alternatives, it's true. What about the others?

You are just being taken in by the Project Fear hype and the attempts by remainers and the EU to muddy the waters.

ianch99 · 22-06-2019, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Those are two alternatives, it's true. What about the others?

You are just being taken in by the Project Fear hype and the attempts by remainers and the EU to muddy the waters.

Let's drop the Project Fear bullshit shall we? It is called facts and reality. Anything else is denial.

If you disagree, prove it with facts and argument. The land of No Deal has no sunlit uplands running wild with unicorns I am afraid.

1andrew1 · 22-06-2019, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Those are two alternatives, it's true. What about the others?

You are just being taken in by the Project Fear hype and the attempts by remainers and the EU to muddy the waters.

The only alternative is some technological solution that's not been invented yet. Not to say it won't happen in the future but for now we have to work with what we have.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We know all that. It rankles and irks. Ireland is hiding behind a very bad institution - the EU and they need to get their come uppance.

The UK voted in 2016 to effectively be a big cog in a small wheel, in a wheel of large cogs.

I can't see much changing now. The previous talking-up of the likelihood of Greece, Spain, the Netherlands and Ireland leaving the EU seems to have been more wishful thinking than wholesome facts.

**Mick** · 22-06-2019, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

The land of No Deal has no sunlit uplands running wild with unicorns I am afraid.

Prove it with facts. (Potentially Fictional Forecasts are not proof before you even try running with them.)

You cannot tell others to prove something when you don’t bother to prove what you’re saying is even remotely true.

1andrew1 · 22-06-2019, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Prove it with facts. (Potentially Fictional Forecasts are not proof before you even try running with them.)

You cannot tell others to prove something when you don’t bother to prove what you’re saying is even remotely true.

It's been demonstrated to the pro-Brexit UK Government. There's no stronger available analysis than this and despite their agenda, they have accepted it.
To me, ianch99 is not asking for perfect evidence but something equivalent to that which shows we will be worse off and not just optimistic phrases.

nomadking · 22-06-2019, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

Brexit has been a brilliant recruitment tool for the latest incarnation of the IRA.

Completely forgetting about the impact of Leaving on the GFA has been the problem. The UK asked for the Backstop arrangement in the WA. This has prevented the WA getting through parliament. You can wish the GFA has nothing to do with Brexit all you want. It does not stop it being a factor .

March 2016, ie before referendum

Quote:

A murder investigation begins into the death of murder of prison officer Adrian Ismay, 11 days after he was injured in a booby-trap bomb attack in east Belfast.
The device exploded under the 52-year-old officer's van as he drove over a speed ramp at Hillsborough Drive on 4 March.
Days later, a dissident republican group widely referred to as the new IRA said it carried out the attack.

The New IRA is just a collective group for all the Republican terrorists.
July 2012

Quote:

Some of Northern Ireland's dissident republican paramilitary groups are to come together under the banner of the IRA, a statement has claimed.

1andrew1 · 22-06-2019, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

March 2016, ie before referendum

The New IRA is just a collective group for all the Republican terrorists.
July 2012

No one's saying the New IRA didn't exist before June 2016.
What's your post #3612 on about then?

nomadking · 22-06-2019, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No one's saying the New IRA didn't exist before June 2016.

The accusation made was "Brexit has been a brilliant recruitment tool for the latest incarnation of the IRA.".

1) Why should the IRA etc be that bothered about the border?
2) Why should we have to continually pander to them?

1andrew1 · 23-06-2019, 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

The accusation made was "Brexit has been a brilliant recruitment tool for the latest incarnation of the IRA.".

1) Why should the IRA etc be that bothered about the border?
2) Why should we have to continually pander to them?

If you read this article that Angua linked to, it explains the recruitment question and the New IRA's interest in the border.

The first time that I've heard about our continually pandering to the New IRA is in your post. As far as I'm aware, no one is suggesting that. However, I'm sure you appreciate that it's better not to adopt policies that increase support for terrorism if you can avoid it.