Brexit

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

Rubbish. Stop lying. The public rejects staying in. This is perfectly clear in the results last night. “Bollocks to Brexit”, “Stop Brexit” from Lib Dem’s, was clearly not very appealing and lost heavy to Brexit Party in practically every region except London and Scotland.

He’s not lying, the truth as always is somewhere in between. The nation is as divided and polarised as before

Img from bbc

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

After the huge win by the Brexit party the EU will be looking more closely at refusing any further extensions as we have become toxic to their ideology. more likely we will in effect get kicked out of the club without lifting a finger.

They aren't going to lose any sleep over 28 MEPs out of 751. They won't turn up anyway, but will still claim the pay/pensions.
The EU may let us stay if we beg nicely, you never know our luck

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

After the huge win by the Brexit party the EU will be looking more closely at refusing any further extensions as we have become toxic to their ideology. more likely we will in effect get kicked out of the club without lifting a finger.

With no-deal off the cards*, the reverse could be true. The EU could focus on internal issues and less on negotiating a deal with the UK. Meaning we remain in the EU indefinitely.

* Hammond warns leadership hopefuls over no-deal Brexit stance
Chancellor says a prime minister seeking to leave EU without agreement ‘cannot expect to survive’
https://www.ft.com/content/81a42938-...5-ad75bb96c849[COLOR="Silver"]

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Not all Conservatives are Brexiteers Mick, could be argued the support they had left are the Remainers in the Party. Same for Labour. In which case Remain won by an even bigger margin. No wonder there is paranoia from the Leave side on another vote !

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not lying. 2016 demonstrated that some 17 million people voted to leave. Less than that voted for the Brexit party. Getting into guesswork about what’s in the heads of Conservative/Labour voters, given the multitude of issues those parties stand for, is speculative at best.

Why are you so terrified of a second referendum if you are so certain?[COLOR="Silver"]

You will always argue that black is white, and vice versa, just for the hell of it!

Let's state the position clearly. Those parties standing on a 'leave' manifesto:

%
Brexit 31.6
Conservatives 9.1
Labour 14.1
UKIP 3.3
_____
58.1

Those standing on a 'remain' manifesto:

Change U.K. 3.4
LibDem 20.3
Plaid 1.0
SNP 3.5
Green 12.1
____
40.3

Now I hope that is clear enough for you. Leave won by a substantial margin. That is a fact and however you spin it, that is an even more of a resounding defeat for remainers than in the referendum.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

They aren't going to lose any sleep over 28 MEPs out of 751. They won't turn up anyway, but will still claim the pay/pensions.
The EU may let us stay if we beg nicely, you never know our luck

Stop lying Mr K, the Brexit Party has 29 MEPs not 28! Maybe you were missing out the Brexit MEP for NE England who lives in France and London?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

He’s not lying, the truth as always is somewhere in between. The nation is as divided and polarised as before

Img from bbc

The analysis is incorrect as both Conservatives and Labour are, as things stand, Leave parties.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You will always argue that black is white, and vice versa, just for the hell of it!

Let's state the position clearly. Those parties standing on a 'leave' manifesto:

%
Brexit 31.6
Conservatives 9.1
Labour 14.1
UKIP 3.3
_____
58.1

Those standing on a 'remain' manifesto:

Change U.K. 3.4
LibDem 20.3
Plaid 1.0
SNP 3.5
Green 12.1
____
40.3

Now I hope that is clear enough for you. Leave won by a substantial margin. That is a fact and however you spin it, that is an even more of a resounding defeat for remainers than in the referendum.

Mmm, they weren't standing on their manifestos from the last GE were they? You could ignore Labour/Con as they are split, but you could also argue their Brexit support has gone to the Brexit party.
Don't get so touchy anyway OB, the Press Association chart shows all, even if you discount Con/Lab Remainers.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/375/cp...9-05-27-nc.png

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The analysis is incorrect as both Conservatives and Labour are, as things stand, Leave parties.

If you look at the wording in the article (don’t have link to hand but will dig out) it’s comparing those who advocate a ‘hard Brexit’ vs remain so whilst your data is correct in total it also shows that in direct comparison between leaving with no deal and remaining, remain holds the advantage (at the moment)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You will always argue that black is white, and vice versa, just for the hell of it!

Let's state the position clearly. Those parties standing on a 'leave' manifesto:

%
Brexit 31.6
Conservatives 9.1
Labour 14.1
UKIP 3.3
_____
58.1

Those standing on a 'remain' manifesto:

Change U.K. 3.4
LibDem 20.3
Plaid 1.0
SNP 3.5
Green 12.1
____
40.3

Now I hope that is clear enough for you. Leave won by a substantial margin. That is a fact and however you spin it, that is an even more of a resounding defeat for remainers than in the referendum.

Let me state clearly that you’re wrong. You’re applying votes so a single issue for Labour and the Conservatives. If Brexit supporters genuinely believed that to be the case why the exodus from both? You can’t apply Labour/Conservatives either way with any accuracy - there will have been both leave and remain voters in there.

I’m not arguing with anyone here. Simply stating facts.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

He’s not lying, the truth as always is somewhere in between. The nation is as divided and polarised as before

Img from bbc

That image is not portraying an accurate assessment of the results last night, whatsoever, so yes he is lying.

Tories campaigned on a "Get Brexit Done" - so that 9.1% for Tories can be given straight away to Leave, so it beats Remain.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

With no-deal off the cards*, the reverse could be true. The EU could focus on internal issues and less on negotiating a deal with the UK. Meaning we remain in the EU indefinitely.

* Hammond warns leadership hopefuls over no-deal Brexit stance
Chancellor says a prime minister seeking to leave EU without agreement ‘cannot expect to survive’
https://www.ft.com/content/81a42938-...5-ad75bb96c849[COLOR="Silver"]

I think no deal is on the cards but it’ll be after a referendum. Labour and the Conservatives on both the leave and remain side need a way out of this situation - kick it back to the people. No deal vs remain.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

That image is not portraying an accurate assessment of the results last night, whatsoever, so yes he is lying.

Tories campaigned on a "Get Brexit Done" - so that 9.1% for Tories can be given straight away to Leave, so it beats Remain.

A signifcant number of their MPs/peers don't support Brexit. It isn't that simple Mick,no matter how desperate you are for 'winners' and 'losers'.

Originally Posted by Mr K

The Lib Dems had a brilliant night. As for their slogan it's about time Brexiteers had some of their own abusive type language thrown back at them.

A drop of 52% to 34% shows support for Brexit is declining and will continue to do so.

The Lib Dems did not beat the Brexit Party though so your point is moot.

Also - It's not 34% so you are wrong - yet again, you are another one who needs to stop telling lies.

ALL tallying in the world will not remove the fact that the UK does not want to remain in the EU - this is a fact now from several elections and a referendum.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

That image is not portraying an accurate assessment of the results last night, whatsoever, so yes he is lying.

Tories campaigned on a "Get Brexit Done" - so that 9.1% for Tories can be given straight away to Leave, so it beats Remain.

You are making the false assumption that is the only reason anyone would vote for them. Labour have a commitment to a second referendum if they can’t force a general election so can the People’s Vote campaign claim them?

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

The Lib Dems did not beat the Brexit Party though so your point is moot.

Also - It's not 34% so you are wrong - yet again, you are another one who needs to stop telling lies.

ALL tallying in the world will not remove the fact that the UK does not want to remain in the EU - this is a fact now from several elections and a referendum.

So many elections you don’t believe they’d vote for it in a second referendum.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

That image is not portraying an accurate assessment of the results last night, whatsoever, so yes he is lying.

Tories campaigned on a "Get Brexit Done" - so that 9.1% for Tories can be given straight away to Leave, so it beats Remain.

When it comes down to ‘hard Brexit’ or ‘leave means leave’ vs remain it tells a different tale

On overall vote share remain vs above wins that cannot be denied there is no mandate whatsoever for no deal

So we get back to the same position as before neither of the main parties want to pin their colours to the mast for fear of alienating voters

The Brexit part I doubt will take a significant share of the vote in a GE

Which leaves BRINO which neither side wants or a 2nd referendum

If the politicians won’t decide the people must a 2nd referendum containing two options

Leave immediately with no deal
Remain

It’s time to shit or get off the pot. The paralysis cannot continue