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The future of television
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Old 08-03-2021, 10:28   #76
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Yup. As long as public service broadcasting is a principle upheld in UK legislation, there will have to be a way of delivering it thatís free to receive.

Far too many people have so far failed to grasp the implications of public service broadcasting, especially on the Tory right where thereís a tendency to make simplistic and wholly false connections between the TV license and Netflix-style subscriptions. The only way the BBC is going to go behind a paywall is if it is relieved of its PSB obligations. And if the BBC is no longer a public service broadcaster, why should ITV, Channel 4 and Five want to continue to be saddled with those obligations?

A public service broadcaster has to be free-to-view, otherwise itís not providing a public service. It really is that simple.

If the future is in IP delivery then we either abandon public service broadcasting or we put a service obligation on telecoms companies to provide IP-based TV streams for free. Thatís a lot to ask.

But the BBC falls under the umbrella of a public service broadcaster and it is not free to watch BBC channels
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Old 08-03-2021, 10:54   #77
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Jaymoss View Post
But the BBC falls under the umbrella of a public service broadcaster and it is not free to watch BBC channels
This is where the fine distinction between a subscription and a licence comes in.

You need a licence to operate equipment that receives TV broadcasts. That definition has been fudged slightly so that for IP delivery, you only need the licence to use iPlayer to view programmes as broadcast. You don't need the licence for other IP players and you don't need it to view BBC content stored in the iPlayer for catch up viewing.

Further, unlike a subscription, paying the licence fee does not create a contractual obligation between you and the BBC. If you pay Sky for service and they don't provide it, you have redress under the Sale of Goods Act. If you buy a TV licence and then find, for whatever reason, you can't receive BBC transmissions, then you have no redress at all.

The fact that the BBC is the organisation that collects and spends the licence fee is what leads to the false comparisons with TV companies that operate via subscription. But to make that comparison is to fail to understand the legal distinctions that have been made. These may seem esoteric but they're actually very important for understanding where we are, and the very real legislative issues that will need to be overcome if in future we're going to opt for something else.
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Old 08-03-2021, 11:05   #78
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Re: The future of television

You originally and me in response said "Free" having to pay for a licence removes the free part. That is all I meant. The rest of your explanation I knew. Personally I would be happy for the BBC to start advertising and save the £15 a month I have to pay to watch Eastenders for a bottle of Gin
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:16   #79
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Jaymoss View Post
You originally and me in response said "Free" having to pay for a licence removes the free part. That is all I meant. The rest of your explanation I knew. Personally I would be happy for the BBC to start advertising and save the £15 a month I have to pay to watch Eastenders for a bottle of Gin
I think it's slightly inaccurate to say the BBC is free. It isn't. Nothing is. I think it's more accurate to say that, like the NHS and most of the Road network, the BBC is free at the point of use.

Personally, I think the BBC is generally good. I think they've become a little too frightened of offending the government, which is bad as I think we need a public broadcaster that is free and willing to openly hold those who govern to account, and the BBC is repeatedly failing at that task. Apart from that, they are good, and I am happy to pay my licence fee.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:21   #80
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Re: The future of television

My TV has a receiver in it wired to an ariel on the roof. If VM service is down I can still use that to watch something, especially live sport like 6 Nations, and from the comfort of my front room.
I've holidayed in places with a set and ariel and that's all.
Radios especially in cars will still want to receive programmes including BBC and in many cases you can't replace with some IP/5G internet thingy. Classic cars for example.


Wonder how many young adults with young kids would support PBS broadcasting via an ariel if stuck at home with the internet down. Suddenly having CBeeBees easily available for "free" would seem a small price to pay license fee for.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:36   #81
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
I think it's slightly inaccurate to say the BBC is free. It isn't. Nothing is. I think it's more accurate to say that, like the NHS and most of the Road network, the BBC is free at the point of use.

Personally, I think the BBC is generally good. I think they've become a little too frightened of offending the government, which is bad as I think we need a public broadcaster that is free and willing to openly hold those who govern to account, and the BBC is repeatedly failing at that task. Apart from that, they are good, and I am happy to pay my licence fee.
I never said the BBC is free Chris did I said it wasn't free
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:55   #82
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Re: The future of television

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I never said the BBC is free Chris did I said it wasn't free
And it is, in the sense I clarified when you asked.

The disconnection between payment for, and access to, the BBC's services is evident in its website, its radio output and even its TV service as long as you only access that content after broadcast.

The TV licence is not a BBC subscription, it is a licence to operate a TV receiver. I appreciate the difference is subtle, but in the context of this discussion it's relevant.
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Old 08-03-2021, 13:47   #83
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
And it is, in the sense I clarified when you asked.

The disconnection between payment for, and access to, the BBC's services is evident in its website, its radio output and even its TV service as long as you only access that content after broadcast.

The TV licence is not a BBC subscription, it is a licence to operate a TV receiver. I appreciate the difference is subtle, but in the context of this discussion it's relevant.
saying in the sense means there is another sense where it is not so its semantics . The BBC is funded by the TV licence so anyone who pays the TV licence is paying to watch those who do not are not paying. I pay so it is not free
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Old 08-03-2021, 14:56   #84
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Re: The future of television

This wouldn't have turned in to the billionth licence fee thread on CF would it?

Amazes how so many moan about £13 a month for mostly new content, and pay VM/Sky £100 a month for mostly repeats. True its a universal charge which is why its so low. We need a public service broadcaster that isn't relevant on advertising, or we wouldn't get risk taking or programmes commercial channels wouldn't make.
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Old 08-03-2021, 15:23   #85
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
This wouldn't have turned in to the billionth licence fee thread on CF would it?

Amazes how so many moan about £13 a month for mostly new content, and pay VM/Sky £100 a month for mostly repeats. True its a universal charge which is why its so low. We need a public service broadcaster that isn't relevant on advertising, or we wouldn't get risk taking or programmes commercial channels wouldn't make.
Pretty much spot on Mr K.
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Old 08-03-2021, 18:28   #86
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Re: The future of television

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This wouldn't have turned in to the billionth licence fee thread on CF would it?

Amazes how so many moan about £13 a month for mostly new content, and pay VM/Sky £100 a month for mostly repeats. True its a universal charge which is why its so low. We need a public service broadcaster that isn't relevant on advertising, or we wouldn't get risk taking or programmes commercial channels wouldn't make.
I am on Freesat and download a lot of the TV I watch off usenet
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Old 08-03-2021, 19:50   #87
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Re: The future of television

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Yup. As long as public service broadcasting is a principle upheld in UK legislation, there will have to be a way of delivering it that’s free to receive.

Far too many people have so far failed to grasp the implications of public service broadcasting, especially on the Tory right where there’s a tendency to make simplistic and wholly false connections between the TV license and Netflix-style subscriptions. The only way the BBC is going to go behind a paywall is if it is relieved of its PSB obligations. And if the BBC is no longer a public service broadcaster, why should ITV, Channel 4 and Five want to continue to be saddled with those obligations?

A public service broadcaster has to be free-to-view, otherwise it’s not providing a public service. It really is that simple.

If the future is in IP delivery then we either abandon public service broadcasting or we put a service obligation on telecoms companies to provide IP-based TV streams for free. That’s a lot to ask.
Public service broadcasting itself is under review. By the way, once broadband is fully rolled out, there is no reason the Beeb could not go IPTV, even if public service broadcasting obligations are retained.

As things stand now, you need a TV, plus an aerial or a TV subscription (via Sky, BT, VM, Talk Talk, etc), and of course you need electricity. It’s certainly not free. Why is the internet any different? It is pretty well a necessity in the modern world.

This article is quite interesting in terms of current audience preferences.

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20210307...adcast-tv.html

[EXTRACT]

Currently, half of UK TV audiences said they turned to streaming channels ahead of broadcast. When delving into the different consumption patterns between CTV and broadcast channels, the study found that three-fifths (62%) of viewers watch broadcast TV out of habit, whereas three-fifths (62%) of respondents choose CTV as their default service because it boasted their favourite shows and half (51%) enjoy the greater variety of content. When looking at streaming behaviour by age, the preference was even more pronounced. Nearly seven in ten (70%) Millennials and GenZers were found to go directly to streaming channels first over broadcast.
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Old 08-03-2021, 19:56   #88
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Jaymoss View Post
I am on Freesat and download a lot of the TV I watch off usenet
Somebody, somewhere, has to pay for those programmes you download to be made, and Freesat is provided as a PSB by the BBC and ITV...

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Public service broadcasting itself is under review. By the way, once broadband is fully rolled out, there is no reason the Beeb could not go IPTV, even if public service broadcasting obligations are retained.

As things stand now, you need a TV, plus an aerial or a TV subscription (via Sky, BT, VM, Talk Talk, etc), and of course you need electricity. Itís certainly not free. Why is the internet any different? It is pretty well a necessity in the modern world.

This article is quite interesting in terms of current audience preferences.

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20210307...adcast-tv.html
People who want to sell advertising on streaming TV produce poll that shows itís worth advertising on streaming TV...

But 18 million homes at the moment have the choice not to have any subscription - you want to take that choice away from them...
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Old 08-03-2021, 20:02   #89
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Re: The future of television

We have to pay the licence fee. I would like the choice, but there is no other option if I want to watch TV.
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Old 08-03-2021, 20:20   #90
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Re: The future of television

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We have to pay the licence fee. I would like the choice, but there is no other option if I want to watch TV.
This is because Parliament has determined that a well-funded national broadcaster is the best means of ensuring a guaranteed depth and breadth of quality programming.

Itís easy to assume that American style TV would be great for the UK given the quality of much the stuff that is imported here, however we only see a small fraction of what actually fills airtime in the USA and trust me, an average evening on an average channel on American TV is horrific. Itís dross, mostly cheap talking head news magazines and fairly constant commercial breaks.
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