VOD : Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

[Legendkiller2k]

Originally Posted by jfman

Of course he won’t as then he’d clearly have to agree to fixed goalposts. No more room to conflate and obfuscate.

He’s clearly realised, for a second time, that his hopes/dreams are over ambitious. Just as 2025 became 2035 the shift is now ‘linear’ to ‘traditional’ broadcasts.

I’ve asked countless times - to no clear answer - whether continuous video accessed through an app where everyone watches the exact same thing at the exact same time to a fixed schedule would be considered ‘linear’ to Old Boy. An example would be the current Sky Sports News app on Now TV.

Now to any objective observer this is ‘linear’ television. You, or anyone else, can opt in and out as you please and at any given time you’d see exactly what I see. If I sat there for 100 hours the broadcast will continue without any need for the user to do anything (energy saving settings permitted). This is how linear, scheduled television works regardless of delivery method. This is what he’s bleated on about for 7 years.

However, this is where Old Boy’s next clutch at straws comes in. He’s going to argue this is streaming as it’s delivered by the internet. Yet, all that posting he did about watching TV to a schedule being for the brain dead at no point debated the merits of DTT vs IPTV.

It baffles me how he is still trying to say people who work in the industry are wrong too lol.
On plus side we break up for 4 weeks next friday.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

While all DTT channels are linear, not all linear channels are on DTT. Linear channels could, for example, be broadcast over IPTV, cable, satellite or an app. It’d be helpful if you could clarify at this point whether your 20x5 commitment is for the end of DTT or the end of scheduled linear broadcasting. In one word preferably to prevent you from obfuscating.

How many times?!!

I believe that the traditionally broadcast TV channels will cease, whether by DTT, cable or satellite. They will ultimately migrate to IPTV and the content will be presented a different way - not by channel.

Live content will be streamed, just as live content on the BBC i-Player is streamed, and again, the content will be accessed not by channel, but by event.

I am not ruling out 'Pluto' type services, but frankly, even they are now emphasising their VOD content.

---------- Post added at 07:31 ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Please cease from misrepresenting this. Closing BBC resulted in the BBC commissioning less content. The savings were not gained from not broadcasting into the air for 12 hours per day, or video playout costs.

Well, that is part of the point. Less content is commissioned because you don't have to fill the gaps in the schedule with dross. You know as well as I do that the BBC has a reputation for repeating its programmes over and over.

Instead, you will just get the programmes that are judged to be of interest to the target audience.

---------- Post added at 07:53 ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k

It baffles me how he is still trying to say people who work in the industry are wrong too lol.
On plus side we break up for 4 weeks next friday.

I do not discount in any way your contribution, Legendkiller. I am expressing mine and you are expressing yours.

I don't know exactly what you do, but I know that you can see contracts and proposals coming through. But you are the first to admit that often you don't know what lies just around the corner because sometimes you get notified just weeks in advance.

I would have thought that very little of what gets through to your office relates to 20 years hence, and even if it did, do you really suppose that things are impossible for broadcasters to change? The broadcasting industry recognises that it is up for debate whether DTT will still be broadcast as it is now in the future or whether 5G broadcast is the name of the game in the future. The jury is out on whether existing broadcast system will move over to IPTV in the future as well.

All I'm saying is that I believe it will, because it will be cheaper and more flexible, and easier to run. No scheduling required, except for live events. Yes, I know that channels can be run over IPTV - look at Now TV. But if most people are viewing their content via VOD, as I think they will be by then, why would they do this?

It is just my opinion. I may be proved wrong, I acknowledge that. I'm not claiming to be Nostrodamus!

---------- Post added at 07:59 ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Worth noting that the BBC is actively considering returning Three to linear broadcast, because its penetration of its target audience (16-34s) fell from 22% in 2015-2016, the last it was fully broadcast over the air, to just 8% last year. It seems even within the age group that’s fed up of linear and only interested in on-demand content, is a rather significant constituency that will only engage with BBC Three when it’s served to them in a nice, easy, hands-off linear schedule.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52719883
https://inews.co.uk/news/entertainme...-people-666617

We know that, and if you recall, I said at the time that this move was far too early, and it was wrong to pick on this one channel to migrate to online only. Broadband hasn't even finished rolling out yet, and the government is hinting that even this will be delayed now. So the move was rather premature.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

How many times?!!

Until you actually answer the question asked. Can you tell me how a “Pluto-TV” type service varies from scheduled, linear television other than the delivery method?

Stop wasting time. Stop obfuscating. Stop shifting the goalposts.

It’s obvious from your posts you know the game is up. Linear television will exist in 2035 to the surprise of absolutely no-one. Whether it’s broadcast over DTT or not is simply a new discussion as you backtrack further.

Again to save us all the hassle it’d be helpful if you could clarify at this point whether your 20x5 commitment is for the end of DTT or the end of scheduled linear broadcasting. In one word preferably to prevent you from obfuscating..

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We know that, and if you recall, I said at the time that this move was far too early, and it was wrong to pick on this one channel to migrate to online only. Broadband hasn't even finished rolling out yet, and the government is hinting that even this will be delayed now. So the move was rather premature.

The BBC said that at the time. I don't recall you saying so. If you can link back to a contemporaneous post (i.e. from around the time the closure was announced, or implemented) that would be helpful.

Notwithstanding, premature closure is one thing. Actively going in the opposite direction of where you keep telling us this is all heading ... that's quite something else, and not a thing you get to breezily sweep under the carpet just because it's inconvenient for your predictions.

[Phunkenstein]

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k

So i checked systems for OB and nothing at all is on them about Channel 4 leaving traditional tv methods.

Also came through today SKY are proposing Shudder, Amazon prime video and Starzplay apps on the SKYQ box.
This is only at proposal stages at the moment.

I know you have mentioned Shudder before but the other two are interesting - Starzplay have managed to get themselves across a variety of platforms (even on Rakuten TV) but Sky seems to have been a holdout for sometime - curious to see how whether that’s an app or whether Sky operate that via their own progressive download system.

And it’s been well reported that Sky & Amazon have had a lot of commercial differences preventing Prime landing on Q (Search, transactional content and the channels platform Amazon have) so if they have found some common ground, interesting to see where they have both ceded that ground and if it happens, whether this is reciprocated and gets Now TV onto the Fire TV platform?

[Legendkiller2k]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

How many times?!!

I believe that the traditionally broadcast TV channels will cease, whether by DTT, cable or satellite. They will ultimately migrate to IPTV and the content will be presented a different way - not by channel.

Live content will be streamed, just as live content on the BBC i-Player is streamed, and again, the content will be accessed not by channel, but by event.

I am not ruling out 'Pluto' type services, but frankly, even they are now emphasising their VOD content.

---------- Post added at 07:31 ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 ----------



Well, that is part of the point. Less content is commissioned because you don't have to fill the gaps in the schedule with dross. You know as well as I do that the BBC has a reputation for repeating its programmes over and over.

Instead, you will just get the programmes that are judged to be of interest to the target audience.

---------- Post added at 07:53 ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 ----------



I do not discount in any way your contribution, Legendkiller. I am expressing mine and you are expressing yours.

I don't know exactly what you do, but I know that you can see contracts and proposals coming through. But you are the first to admit that often you don't know what lies just around the corner because sometimes you get notified just weeks in advance.

I would have thought that very little of what gets through to your office relates to 20 years hence, and even if it did, do you really suppose that things are impossible for broadcasters to change? The broadcasting industry recognises that it is up for debate whether DTT will still be broadcast as it is now in the future or whether 5G broadcast is the name of the game in the future. The jury is out on whether existing broadcast system will move over to IPTV in the future as well.

All I'm saying is that I believe it will, because it will be cheaper and more flexible, and easier to run. No scheduling required, except for live events. Yes, I know that channels can be run over IPTV - look at Now TV. But if most people are viewing their content via VOD, as I think they will be by then, why would they do this?

It is just my opinion. I may be proved wrong, I acknowledge that. I'm not claiming to be Nostrodamus!

---------- Post added at 07:59 ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 ----------



We know that, and if you recall, I said at the time that this move was far too early, and it was wrong to pick on this one channel to migrate to online only. Broadband hasn't even finished rolling out yet, and the government is hinting that even this will be delayed now. So the move was rather premature.

Ofcourse OB i agree with you to an extent but claiming any of the big 5 channels will leave traditional broadcasting methods anytime within next 50 years is a very long shot.
Also 6G is being tested, i'm serious.

---------- Post added at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Phunkenstein

I know you have mentioned Shudder before but the other two are interesting - Starzplay have managed to get themselves across a variety of platforms (even on Rakuten TV) but Sky seems to have been a holdout for sometime - curious to see how whether that’s an app or whether Sky operate that via their own progressive download system.

And it’s been well reported that Sky & Amazon have had a lot of commercial differences preventing Prime landing on Q (Search, transactional content and the channels platform Amazon have) so if they have found some common ground, interesting to see where they have both ceded that ground and if it happens, whether this is reciprocated and gets Now TV onto the Fire TV platform?

We think it'll be a stripped down version of Prime video on SKYQ maybe just the included with prime content, SKY are keen to get talks rolling and Amazon are also pretty keen as they want Prime on every device.
Chances are Shudder and Starzplay could be in the prime app itself if/when it arrives on the SKYQ box, Shudder do have a linear channel on their website so that may get a EPG number on SKY.
Things are likely to quieten down quite a lot now in work with the break coming up next Friday a nice 4 week break but i think 2021 is going to be a very busy year tv wise.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Until you actually answer the question asked. Can you tell me how a “Pluto-TV” type service varies from scheduled, linear television other than the delivery method?

Stop wasting time. Stop obfuscating. Stop shifting the goalposts.

It’s obvious from your posts you know the game is up. Linear television will exist in 2035 to the surprise of absolutely no-one. Whether it’s broadcast over DTT or not is simply a new discussion as you backtrack further.

Again to save us all the hassle it’d be helpful if you could clarify at this point whether your 20x5 commitment is for the end of DTT or the end of scheduled linear broadcasting. In one word preferably to prevent you from obfuscating..

You are being a bit dim, if I may say so. I don’t see why you are (allegedly) confused by the answer I gave last time. But playing your little game:

Will linear TV still exist in 2035? - yes. It will exist for live events, which must be obvious to all. As for scripted TV, I cannot rule out some minor scheduled TV content like Pluto on IPTV, but all the main ones will have died out in favour of streamed content. Pluto is very much a minority interest, but I think now with the increased prominence of VOD, they may take the view that it’s not worth continuing with linear at all. That’s the way I think it will go.

As far as DTT is concerned, even Freeview is now preparing to enhance its VOD offering. My own feeling is that the DTT offering will be replaced by 5G broadcast, but I agree that could go either way.

I have given you the one word answer in bold, with an explanation of it. As I have repeated time and again, that word ‘linear’ was commonly used to describe the traditional broadcast channels back in 2015, and I see this description still used today. You don’t seem to be able to comprehend this, although it seems very Jack and Jill to me.

I am not seeking to persuade you, or anyone on here, that my view of the future is correct. I am simply telling you what I think. You are unpersuadable anyway because you are just argumentative. Others take a different view from me for particular reasons, and that’s OK.

You cannot KNOW anything that might happen in 2035. I don’t, and neither can you or anybody else. But quite why my sharing my vision of it upsets some of you so much I cannot fathom. As you have said in the past, it’s just TV.

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

The BBC said that at the time. I don't recall you saying so. If you can link back to a contemporaneous post (i.e. from around the time the closure was announced, or implemented) that would be helpful.

Notwithstanding, premature closure is one thing. Actively going in the opposite direction of where you keep telling us this is all heading ... that's quite something else, and not a thing you get to breezily sweep under the carpet just because it's inconvenient for your predictions.

What happens in the short term is not necessarily an indicator of what will happen in the long term. I never said these changes would happen immediately, I said they should have happened by 2035.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are being a bit dim, if I may say so.

You may not.

I don’t see why you are (allegedly) confused by the answer I gave last time. But playing your little game:

Will linear TV still exist in 2035? - yes.

Thanks Old Boy. It's only taken five years.

It will exist for live events, which must be obvious to all.

Well no, it's not obvious. DAZN, NFL Network and others offer ad-hoc events via an app. You could log on and between events find out that there's absolutely nothing there. This is clearly ad-hoc broadcasting and not linear, scheduled broadcasting. You could sit for 165 hours and nothing appear until the next NFL game arrives the following Sunday. Nobody would consider that linear, scheduled television.

As for scripted TV, I cannot rule out some minor scheduled TV content like Pluto on IPTV, but all the main ones will have died out in favour of streamed content. Pluto is very much a minority interest, but I think now with the increased prominence of VOD, they may take the view that it’s not worth continuing with linear at all. That’s the way I think it will go.

Why would Pluto TV exist but not, for example, a Comcast driven or BBC driven scheduled TV channels? Where the economics that says a minority interest provider can deliver it but not a major content owner for whom the pennies it costs to maintain a linear broadcast channels is a tiny fraction of revenues?

As far as DTT is concerned, even Freeview is now preparing to enhance its VOD offering. My own feeling is that the DTT offering will be replaced by 5G broadcast, but I agree that could go either way.

It's irrelevant really whether DTT is replaced by 5G broadcast or not. The purpose of 5G broadcast is to make more efficient use of the spectrum in the same way that DTT, satellite and cable have efficiencies - the same content is broadcast once to many simultaneous users.

I have given you the one word answer in bold, with an explanation of it.

And it's a clear and obvious shift from your original position.

As I have repeated time and again, that word ‘linear’ was commonly used to describe the traditional broadcast channels back in 2015, and I see this description still used today. You don’t seem to be able to comprehend this, although it seems very Jack and Jill to me.

I'm not accepting your goal post shift here Old Boy and there's years of you calling scheduled television as for the lazy and brain dead to prove this.

I am not seeking to persuade you, or anyone on here, that my view of the future is correct. I am simply telling you what I think. You are unpersuadable anyway because you are just argumentative. Others take a different view from me for particular reasons, and that’s OK.

You cannot KNOW anything that might happen in 2035. I don’t, and neither can you or anybody else.

The problem is Old Boy you are deploying this device here - I don't, and neither can you - to attribute equal weight to all opinions. That's simply not the case. We have people who work in the industry here. People who are looking at the economic realities and analysing the questions that you often shirk describing the answers as 'obvious' without any insight whatsoever.

But quite why my sharing my vision of it upsets some of you so much I cannot fathom. As you have said in the past, it’s just TV.

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------



What happens in the short term is not necessarily an indicator of what will happen in the long term. I never said these changes would happen immediately, I said they should have happened by 2035.

At least it's clearer now from the bits in bold that these are moving opinions rather than fixed beliefs. It'd be helpful now if you just stopped insulting those who disagree with you.

[1andrew1]

Can I ask, if linear broadcasts are distributed by different means in the future like 5G, what is old tech about them compared to on-demand content?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Thanks Old Boy. It's only taken five years.

And it's a clear and obvious shift from your original position.

At least it's clearer now from the bits in bold that these are moving opinions rather than fixed beliefs. It'd be helpful now if you just stopped insulting those who disagree with you.

What absolute nonsense you do talk. When it became apparent back in 2015 that some were taking the reference to ‘linear’ to mean ‘live’, I clarified what I meant by the term and I acknowledged that OF COURSE live TV would still exist - just not as channels - in the sense of conventional channels.

You do love to change history to suit yourself.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What absolute nonsense you do talk. When it became apparent back in 2015 that some were taking the reference to ‘linear’ to mean ‘live’, I clarified what I meant by the term and I acknowledged that OF COURSE live TV would still exist - just not as channels - in the sense of conventional channels.

You do love to change history to suit yourself.

Well, that’s clear as mud.

[OLD BOY]

Someone ( I think I know who) questioned my point that the BBC was planning to go IPTV in the future. Quite by accident, I found one of these posts, but unfortunately the link does not work now. However, the link was to an article contains a further link to an official document. I thought I would share this with you so you don’t imagine that I am dreaming it up.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

This is an interesting development from the BBC.

http://www.a516digital.com/2018/02/b...onditions.html

The documentation relating to the future distribution of content states:

'The BBC expects that over the course of the Charter period it will continue to deliver value to audiences through broadcast services – which still make up the majority of BBC consumption – while preparing for a future where all content experiences are delivered over the internet. Given the increasing pace of change, the BBC needs to prepare for that future to arrive early in the next Charter period. The transition to internet delivery of BBC services creates opportunities for the BBC to offer richer, more targeted experiences for audiences (see below) and new ways of bringing the nation and communities together, while also avoiding the duplicative costs of broadcast. However, it also comes with additional strategic challenges, above all, ensuring the BBC’s public service mission can still be effectively delivered on new connected platforms.'

This appears to lend credence to the theory I have promoted on my linear tv threads that broadcast channels are likely to be a thing of the past within the next couple of decades. If the BBC expects delivery of its programmes by internet only within the next 20 years, this gives me much more confidence in championing that opinion. My thinking until now was that the BBC would be the last to stop broadcasting in the conventional way.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What absolute nonsense you do talk. When it became apparent back in 2015 that some were taking the reference to ‘linear’ to mean ‘live’, I clarified what I meant by the term and I acknowledged that OF COURSE live TV would still exist - just not as channels - in the sense of conventional channels.

You do love to change history to suit yourself.

Again Old Boy you are trying to sit on the fence rather than clearly define what your intention is/was. I'm 100% certain this is deliberate on your part.

I go onto my phone and use the Premier Sports app and chromecast Premier Sports 1 to my TV. It's some old documentary not a 'live' game. Am I watching a linear channel by your definition?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Someone ( I think I know who) questioned my point that the BBC was planning to go IPTV in the future. Quite by accident, I found one of these posts, but unfortunately the link does not work now. However, the link was to an article contains a further link to an official document. I thought I would share this with you so you don’t imagine that I am dreaming it up.

And here you go, trying to clarify your position by conflating terminology, while helpfully drawing our attention to an older post where you prove beyond doubt that you have a shaky grasp at best of the issues and the terminology used to describe them.

Your opening thesis, in the original future of linear tv thread, was that it is primarily the concept of the *schedule* that is obsolete. You went on at length about how great it is that you have a Netflix watch list, and how brain-dead people are for still wanting to come home and sit in front of a tv *schedule* at the end of a day.

The BBC transmits broadcast signals over terrestrial, cable and satellite, and is also utilising IP, which is a data stream that only exists between server and client when the client requests it, so is not broadcast - but it is still transmitting its *schedule* over IP, as well as providing an on-demand service. The document you referred to foresaw a time when the national IP network would be sufficiently mature and robust, and would penetrate sufficient homes, for it to be utilised exclusively. Broadcast of BBC services could then stop, allowing exclusively IP transmission to continue.

The crucial point you seem to have missed is that nowhere has the BBC said it will cease to transmit its *schedule* over IP. And this despite you predicting precisely that, right from the start, as well as egregiously insulting everyone who questioned you.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Someone ( I think I know who) questioned my point that the BBC was planning to go IPTV in the future. Quite by accident, I found one of these posts, but unfortunately the link does not work now. However, the link was to an article contains a further link to an official document. I thought I would share this with you so you don’t imagine that I am dreaming it up.

Here is the actual "official document"

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/abouttheb...n_strategy.pdf

I searched on the first line, and it was the first hit on Google.

The BBC expects that over the course of the Charter period it will continue to deliver value to audiences through broadcast services

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

Interesting article, imho

https://www.ibc.org/trends/whats-nex...y/6816.article

Walley also urges BBC3 to be brought back into the broadcast line up – but as a fundamentally innovative, fully IP channel.

“To remove it entirely from the broadcast line up was an act of cultural vandalism that is still shocking,” he says. “A fully interactive IP BBC3 could be put at the centre of a project to define the role of a broadcast channel in a digital world. It should have its own separate and distinct presence in the on-demand world, tied to its core linear IP output but highly experimental in its approach to content and distribution. It could be the first brand to link TV and radio output in an online world.”