Russia has invaded Ukraine

Originally Posted by chris

do please keep it up. You’re exposing yourself superbly well.

Agreed

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Do please keep it up. You’re exposing yourself superbly well.

I’d say equally the rest of you are doing the same. The fact you are blind to your collective hypocrisy is actually quite alarming.

I’ve been berating the hypocrisy of American foreign policy for years. If that’s a revelation to anyone on the basis of yesterday’s posts then hello, I’m jfman pleased to meet you.

Originally Posted by jfman

I’d say equally the rest of you are doing the same. The fact you are blind to your collective hypocrisy is actually quite alarming.

I’ve been berating the hypocrisy of American foreign policy for years. If that’s a revelation to anyone on the basis of yesterday’s posts then hello, I’m jfman pleased to meet you.

Actually I’m really not bothered what you think about American foreign policy. What I find distasteful is that you’re prepared to play down Russian war crimes and the suffering of Ukrainians - especially non-combatant women and children - just to help you make a rhetorical point about American foreign policy.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Actually I’m really not bothered what you think about American foreign policy. What I find distasteful is that you’re prepared to play down Russian war crimes and the suffering of Ukrainians - especially non-combatant women and children - just to help you make a rhetorical point about American foreign policy.

What I find distasteful is America (and it’s allies) playing up the suffering of Ukranians when it is quite happy to expedite human suffering around the world that aligns with it’s own economic or geopolitical interests. It’s quite happy to manufacture lies and propaganda that people - with the best will in the world like yourself - fall for hook, line and sinker. Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. 40 beheaded babies, etc.

If it can’t hold those views consistently, and apply it universally, then it’s just an emotive punchline in a propaganda device.

I’m also firmly of the view that America will let Ukraine down just as it let down the people of Afghanistan.

Similarly objectionable is your efforts to slur a legitimate political movement - Scottish independence - as some kind of Russian funded disruption effort yet your blind spot that the same principles would apply to the UK leaving the EU. Conservative MPs, Labour MPs and Farage have all taken money from RT. Although we are at this point moving some distance from the subject of the thread so I’ll leave it there.

Originally Posted by jfman

Although we are at this point moving some distance from the subject of the thread so I’ll leave it there.

Indeed we are. And as we return to the substance of the thread I repeat my observation that you have made light of the kidnap of Ukrainian children, which is a war crime. Putin and a member of his administration are wanted in The Hague over it. Perhaps you could acknowledge that suggesting it’s not all that bad for the children involved was at least ill considered?

Originally Posted by jfman

Of course, the CIA always put out a statement when they topple a democratically elected government. I should have known that.

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------



America has no moral authority considering what it is arming in Gaza. Something far closer to a genocide than any of the allegations thrown in Russia’a direction.

At least they are getting kids out of the combat zone rather than slaughtering them with sniper fire I guess.

Yes and no…

https://www.unicef.org/eca/documents...aines-children

At least 535 children have been killed – the equivalent of a child dying every day since the war escalated, mostly from bombardment. At least 1,095 children have been injured.

More up to date info (till the end of January)

https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine...dren%20injured.

Between 24 February 2022 and 31 January 2024, HRMMU verified 10,378 civilians killed and 19,632 injured across Ukraine. These figures include 579 children killed and 1,284 children injured.

In any case, I’m not sure anyone deserves credit for kidnapping children from a combat zone that is only a combat zone because they made it into one by crossing an internationally recognised frontier.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed we are. And as we return to the substance of the thread I repeat my observation that you have made light of the kidnap of Ukrainian children, which is a war crime. Putin and a member of his administration are wanted in The Hague over it. Perhaps you could acknowledge that suggesting it’s not all that bad for the children involved was at least ill considered?

I have absolutely not made 'light' of the 'kidnap' of Ukrainian children. Nor did I suggest it was not 'all bad' for them. I was merely drawing comparison between that and another ongoing conflict where I hear very little about the plight of children.

---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes and no…

https://www.unicef.org/eca/documents...aines-children

More up to date info (till the end of January)

https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine...dren%20injured.

A child dying every day in Palestine since October 7th would be something like 130. Against their peers in carrying out alleged genocide one can only note the data.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

<SNIP>

Similarly objectionable is your efforts to slur a legitimate political movement - Scottish independence - as some kind of Russian funded disruption effort yet your blind spot that the same principles would apply to the UK leaving the EU. Conservative MPs, Labour MPs and Farage have all taken money from RT. Although we are at this point moving some distance from the subject of the thread so I’ll leave it there.

Ah - at last - something for me to be able to bite on.

I, and many others, are 100% convinced that actors like Russia (and possibly Iran & Saudi Arabia) are working very hard to destabilise the UK. I've just made a generalised statement - no idea whether there is Russian money behind any part of the SNP, now; but there might have been when Oil/Gas production were the economic basis for independence.

But I'm certain that these 'poor migrants who have paid £££ thousands to get to the UK have been funded by other actors.

Originally Posted by jfman

I have absolutely not made 'light' of the 'kidnap' of Ukrainian children. Nor did I suggest it was not 'all bad' for them. I was merely drawing comparison between that and another ongoing conflict where I hear very little about the plight of children.

---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------



A child dying every day in Palestine since October 7th would be something like 130. Against their peers in carrying out alleged genocide one can only note the data.

One can only note that it seems to someone that it’s who’s doing the child-killing makes criticism applicable…

Posts removed, this is not another "lets attack brexit" topic.

[1andrew1]

Trump would press Ukraine to give up territory if re-elected - report

His proposal is that Ukraine should cede Crimea and the Donbas border region to Russia, the Washington Post said.

The paper cited "people who discussed it with Trump or his advisers and spoke on condition of anonymity".

It would be a major change to the policy pursued by President Biden, who has provided Ukraine with military aid.

According to the Post, some of the former president's supporters have been trying to talk him out of the plan, given its potential geopolitical ramifications.

Fiona Hill, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who was Trump's top Russia adviser and has since emerged as a prominent critic, told the Post that Mr Trump's team was "thinking about this very much in silos, that this is just a Ukraine-Russia thing.

"They think of it as a territorial dispute, rather than one about the whole future of European security and the world order by extension," she added.

A further, major US package for Ukraine has been held up in the House of Representatives for weeks.

Infighting among Republicans who control the House, and a threat to oust Speaker Mike Johnson, could cause further delays, Reuters has reported.

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-uk...dates-12541713

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-uk...dates-12541713

Of course he would.

It's also most likely the only way this conflict ends.

There is no indication that Ukraine can push Russia back from its territory, and certainly no indication that it can remove Russia from Crimea.

And then, in a couple of years, he takes some more bordering Oblasts…

[jfman]

Ultimately America will let Ukraine down, despite all the hype. The Democrats are probably stalling on doing it because it’s an election year and hoping Trump does their dirty work for them. There’s little ongoing value in continuing to throw good money after bad, the Ukrainian troops aren’t up to the task ahead of them and they aren’t being given resources required even if they were. They’re just fodder at the front with little resource and flawed tactics.

Russia having successfully shifted it’s industries from relying on the West to working with China, India and the global south have managed to keep their war economy on track and stronger now in 2024 than it was in 2022. A picture unlikely to change for the rest of the decade unless the west go down the World War 3 route.