Brexit

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

To the 52% who democratically voted to leave the EU, the Brexit Party MEPs, if elected, would feel properly and democratically represented.

Your stance is pure head in the sand Remainism.

Remainism = expecting people who are elected as Representatives to represent all their constituents, and positively contribute to the running of an organisation, rather than be disruptive and a non-attendee.

I can live with that...

Originally Posted by ianch99

Let's try racism then.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...vist-1-6015344



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That party does not honour democracy. It intends to put forward 5th columnist MEP candidates in the upcoming EU elections.

Yes it does honour democracy. More claptrap and rubbish. Migration concerns is not racism either.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And what do you base this on?

The people putting the presentation together were experts in International Trade and Technology, and if anything, were optimistic in their outlook.

The pace of technology.

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Hopefully, something more substantial than it's not beyond the wit of man.

If there was a driver, that required an expedient solution be found and there was a willingness from all parties to find such a solution, then a solution would be found...quickly.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I do agree we should have had a leaver PM who should have taken responsibility to leave. But none stepped up.

At least Theresa May had a plan and has struggled to get it through Parliament. The lack of a majority has stopped the Withdrawal Agreement in its tracks and Parliament doesn't appear to favour any alternatives. So even with a leaver in charge, we would still have stalemate.

Originally Posted by Pierre

The pace of technology.

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If there was a driver, that required an expedient solution be found and there was a willingness from all parties to find such a solution, then a solution would be found...quickly.

And there was me basing it on 39 years experience in Technology, working on many major technology implementations, and running large Technology departments supporting multi-billion pound businesses...

The challenge is that no one has done anything like this on this scale and of this complexity before, using untested technologies - this is a recipe for budget and time over-runs.

Just creating the work-flows for all the different scenarios would take a year or two, then understanding the interfaces required between all the technology systems involved (some of which won’t exist yet), then you have to translate that into what is technologically possible, which will then be subject to scope change/creep by changes in the real world and political imperatives - this is what happened to the NHS IT Programme; people with no idea of how things actually work (on the ground doing the actual work or the implementors of technology) make sweeping statements like "well, it can’t be that difficult" without any basis in fact or knowledge.

Technology isn’t magic - you need high level requirements, which then become detailed requirements, which you have to find a solution for (both technology and business based - technology supports and delivers business requirements and solutions, it is not a solution on its own), and you then have to develop, integrate, test, re-work, re-test (repeat cycle until complete) and then implement (which is a major piece of work on its own).

As the Home Office slide so aptly put it

The challenge of this work cannot be underestimated.

No Government worldwide currently controls different customs arrangements with no physical infrastructure present at the border

Originally Posted by Pierre

If there was a driver, that required an expedient solution be found and there was a willingness from all parties to find such a solution, then a solution would be found...quickly.

They found a solution: a customs union and/or backstop.

A technological solution which requires no hard border but allows regulatory divergence between this invisible border is not so easy. It's advocates have not told us what the technology would be or where else such as system is working in practise.

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Originally Posted by Hugh

And there was me basing it on 39 years experience in Technology, working on many major technology implementations, and running large Technology departments supporting multi-billion pound businesses...

Hugh, have you considered using Quantum Computing on the cloud powered by an AI blockchain at all?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

Hugh, have you considered using Quantum Computing on the cloud powered by an AI blockchain at all?

I think you just make this stuff up.. There's a career in IT and limitless public money waiting for you !. Actual delivery of anything not required

I've got the career part, just need the limitless public money....

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Remainism = expecting people who are elected as Representatives to represent all their constituents, and positively contribute to the running of an organisation, rather than be disruptive and a non-attendee.

I can live with that...

Sorry, Hugh. The electorate were promised that the result of the referendum would be implemented. Those MPs that have become turncoats should be ashamed, because they are not carrying out their democratic mandate, however their own constituents voted.

A promise is a promise.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And there was me basing it on 39 years experience in Technology, working on many major technology implementations, and running large Technology departments supporting multi-billion pound businesses...

The challenge is that no one has done anything like this on this scale and of this complexity before, using untested technologies - this is a recipe for budget and time over-runs.

Just creating the work-flows for all the different scenarios would take a year or two, then understanding the interfaces required between all the technology systems involved (some of which won’t exist yet), then you have to translate that into what is technologically possible, which will then be subject to scope change/creep by changes in the real world and political imperatives - this is what happened to the NHS IT Programme; people with no idea of how things actually work (on the ground doing the actual work or the implementors of technology) make sweeping statements like "well, it can’t be that difficult" without any basis in fact or knowledge.

Technology isn’t magic - you need high level requirements, which then become detailed requirements, which you have to find a solution for (both technology and business based - technology supports and delivers business requirements and solutions, it is not a solution on its own), and you then have to develop, integrate, test, re-work, re-test (repeat cycle until complete) and then implement (which is a major piece of work on its own).

As the Home Office slide so aptly put it

Yadda Yadda,

The point I’m making is that no one is going to put up a hard border, UK won’t do it, RoI won’t do it, EU won’t do it. So in the event of a no deal Brexit, regardless of how technologically difficult, a solution would be found - it would have to be. Necessity is the mother of invention and if all the three parties are working to the same goal a solution would be found. Just because it hasn’t been done before doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

Have you always worked in technology all your life and approached your projects with the attitude of it’s too much like hard work?

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Originally Posted by Damien

They found a solution: a customs union and/or backstop.

No point going over that ground again.

A technological solution which requires no hard border but allows regulatory divergence between this invisible border is not so easy. It's advocates have not told us what the technology would be or where else such as system is working in practise.

Because it most likely doesn’t exist yet. Or does exist and hasn’t been tried and tested, or does exist disparately and needs bringing together.

Because there hasn’t been a requirement for such a system and no one has really needed one so one hasn’t been developed yet, doesn’t mean one couldn't be quickly, and whilst it’s being developed, interim processes put in place.

[1andrew1]

Majority of public think we shouldn't have held the EU referendum.

More than half the public – 55% – now think it would have been better never to have held the EU referendum given the difficulties of reaching an agreement on Brexit, according to the latest Opinium/Observer poll.
Strikingly, more Conservative voters (49%) now think the referendum was a bad idea than believe it was the right thing to have done (43%).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...idea-says-poll

Originally Posted by Pierre

Because it most likely doesn’t exist yet. Or does exist and hasn’t been tried and tested, or does exist disparately and needs bringing together.

Because there hasn’t been a requirement for such a system and no one has really needed one so one hasn’t been developed yet, doesn’t mean one couldn't be quickly, and whilst it’s being developed, interim processes put in place.

I think the solution will be political. If it isn't the backstop then it'll be a blind eye turned to tariffs or customs checks.

In the end it's not every clear what the basis of a technological solution will be. We're talking about a way of electronically knowing what good are on a truck. At the moment our technology struggles to detect with precision if people are hiding inside a truck without stopping it so I have no idea how we could scan every item in a truck for regulatory compliance.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Yadda Yadda,

The point I’m making is that no one is going to put up a hard border, UK won’t do it, RoI won’t do it, EU won’t do it. So in the event of a no deal Brexit, regardless of how technologically difficult, a solution would be found - it would have to be. Necessity is the mother of invention and if all the three parties are working to the same goal a solution would be found. Just because it hasn’t been done before doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

Have you always worked in technology all your life and approached your projects with the attitude of it’s too much like hard work?

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No point going over that ground again.



Because it most likely doesn’t exist yet. Or does exist and hasn’t been tried and tested, or does exist disparately and needs bringing together.

Because there hasn’t been a requirement for such a system and no one has really needed one so one hasn’t been developed yet, doesn’t mean one couldn't be quickly, and whilst it’s being developed, interim processes put in place.

Your response to Hugh is dismissive,insulting and demonstrates a basic lack of understanding

His response is absolutely correct and I concur as someone with approx 25 yeas experience of designing and implementing large scale IT infrastructure

technology can not just be plucked out of thin air. It takes considerable time and a huge amount of effort to implement hardware and software with the required functionality, security and resilience at a mature level

For example a typical SAP ERP/financials implementation will take approx 3yrs for a large UK company (you can double that for a multinational) NB I do not work for SAP at least 1yr of this is spent gathering detailed requirements

This is before you add in the fact that the government/company side will change requirements at least 15 or 20 times during the implementation. These changes are generally requested by someone who has no idea on the basics

[Sephiroth]

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1724

My succinct contribution in the above link reasonably sums up the degree of challenge in producing a durable customs system that requires no border checks.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1724

My succinct contribution in the above link reasonably sums up the degree of challenge in producing a durable customs system that requires no border checks.

At least you have a grasp on reality...

"Yadda yadda yadda" is what lead to the NHS IT fiasco.

Have you always worked in technology all your life and approached your projects with the attitude of it’s too much like hard work?

No, we approached it with an attitude "what is it we are trying to and how do we make it work’.

I have delivered all my programmes except two -

The first one was an example of your "yadda yadda yadda’ approach - the Board told the City that the new Banking systems would be live for a certain date, even though the Suppliers and IT had shown, no matter what we did, it would be six months after that (with sufficiently complex systems, you can’t just throw resources at it - there are developmental stage gates that you have to go through in certain sequences) - we delivered on time, but the systems crashed almost immediately because there hadn’t been time to undertake full integration and end-user testing; this meant the company couldn’t do business for three weeks (which is a bit of a bugger if you are a £3 billion a year turnover Financial Services Company). We managed to get something up and running after three weeks, but it took nearly a year before things were running smoothly (it mean working long hours and most weekends for nearly a year for most of the Programme and IT teams; not something I would recommend for efficiency and accuracy.) btw, that company no longer exists...

The second programme was one I took over, and it had been running for 5 years and still hadn’t delivered - I reviewed it, and found it had started with no agreed requirements, no business ownership, and senior management who said "just do it" but couldn’t agree what "lt" was beyond a very high level concept (sound familiar?). I recommended that we kill it, as there were still no agreed requirements (the poor developers were visited each week and given requirements, with no change control, which often contradicted the previous ones). Because this was a "political" "just do it" Programme (someone very high in the organisation had had an "brilliant idea", and got his lackies to get it started (and then lost interest), so I couldn’t just cancel it. I proposed a remedial plan, which stopped all the changes, and proposed an independent review at the year end, by an outside consultancy with expertise in that area). At the year end, they found it was not recoverable, and proposed shutting it down.

However, I have successfully implemented many major complex systems, including what was the largest Data Warehouse programme in Europe at the time (which took 4 years), a major SAP implementation (which took 3 years), and the complete refurbishment of a Head Office and 450 Branch Offices IT Infrastructure, including Business Continuity. I have run large technology programmes and departments (500+ staff and £100+ million budgets), and been an IT Director and a member of the Google Europe CIO Group - what’s your Technology delivery background?

These things aren’t easy, these things aren’t simple, and anyone who thinks they are is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.