UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Seph, I'm afaid that link slips below your usual standards. I can only attribute this to be shock at Iain Duncan Smith feigning ignorance of a withdrawal agreement he was praising to the high horses before! He showed contempt for voters and he has rightly been called out on this.

My previous link to the original document demonstrates the Canadian deal was more than IP. This is a pertinent extract: https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/sta...454401/photo/1
I think it's logical that the EU wouldn't want a heavily subsidised socialist state on its doorstep with easy entry into the single market or a highly de-regulated one with very low standards. Thanks to such tight negotiating deadlines, the EU can afford to push for an even stronger level playing field. You may recall that the Canadian deal took some seven years to arrange.

I'm more interested in the now and what you think about Iain Duncan Smith's apparent change of heart or memory loss?

Andrew, Just so you know, IDS is of no importance to me.

On the specific point about 'level playing field', which is the term you used to rebut my argument, I'm not wrong. The term 'level playing field' as applied to CETA doesn't have the same meaning as what the EU wishes to apply to the UK. I quote the EU synopsis in full. Bold text is as per original. Coloured text is my highlight.

APPLICATION IN CETA https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...en/MEMO_16_445

Factsheet: Main elements of CETA
Brussels, 29 February 2016
European Commission - Fact Sheet
The EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade agreement (CETA) will significantly improve business opportunities for European companies in Canada. With CETA, European companies will receive the best treatment that Canada has ever offered to any trading partner, thus levelling the playing field on the Canadian market for EU companies.

By opening markets, CETA should support growth and jobs in the EU and bring further benefits for European consumers. It has the potential to keep prices down and provide consumers with greater choice of quality products. CETA will not change EU standards. Standards and regulations related
to food safety, product safety, consumer protection, health, environment, social or labour standards etc. will remain untouched. All imports from Canada will have to satisfy all EU product rules and regulations – without exception.

More specifically CETA will offer:

- Savings on customs duties
CETA will bring tangible benefits to European consumers and companies by eliminating or cutting customs duties – some of the most far reaching achieved by the EU in a trade agreement. This will provide important market opportunities for European companies including SMEs and could save
European exporters around €470 million a year for industrial goods and €42 million a year for agricultural goods. Importantly, most customs duties will disappear as soon as CETA comes into effect. Cutting customs duties will not lower or change EU standards. Canadian imports will have to respect
EU regulations.

- Opportunities for service suppliers and transparent and effective investment protection and dispute settlement mechanisms

CETA is by far the most far reaching agreement ever concluded by the EU in the area of services and investment. European firms will have more opportunities to provide specialised maritime services like dredging, moving empty containers, and shipping certain cargo within Canada. European firms will also have new advantages when it comes to getting investment projects approved in Canada, protecting their investments and enforcing their rights in case of unfair treatment through a balanced and effective dispute settlement system. In other services sectors, such as environmental services, telecommunications and finance, market access is ensured, both at federal level and - for the first time – provincial level. In CETA – as in all its trade agreements – the EU protects public services. Operating in the EU, Canadian investors and service providers will have to respect applicable EU regulations, and will not be subject to discrimination vis-à-vis European investors and service providers.

- Mutual recognition of professional qualifications
The agreement provides a framework to facilitate the mutual recognition of qualifications in regulated professions such as architects, accountants and engineers. The relevant professional organisations in the EU and Canada now have a framework that sets out the conditions for the negotiation of mutual
recognition agreements for their respective professions. These will then have to be negotiated and agreed by the EU and Canada.

- Easier transfers of company staff and other professionals between the EU and Canada
CETA will make it easier for firms to move staff temporarily between the EU and Canada. This will facilitate European companies' operations in Canada. It will be also easier for other professionals to temporarily supply legal, accounting, architectural or similar services.

- Improve ability of European companies to provide after sales services
CETA will make it easier for EU firms to export equipment, machinery and software by allowing firms to send maintenance engineers and other specialists to provide after-sales and related services.

- Access to Canadian public tenders
Canada has opened up its government tenders to EU companies to a greater extent than with any of its other trading partners. EU firms will be able to bid to provide goods and services not only at federal level but also to Canadian provinces and municipalities, the first non-Canadian firms to be able to do so. Canada’s provincial procurement market is estimated to be double the size of its federal equivalent.

- Avoiding costs related to double testing
The EU and Canada have agreed to accept each other’s conformity assessment certificates in areas such as electrical goods, electronic and radio equipment, toys, machinery or measuring equipment. This means that a conformity assessment body in the EU can test EU products for export to Canada according to Canadian rules and vice versa. This will avoid both sides doing the same test and could greatly reduce costs for companies and consumers alike. This is of particular benefit to smaller companies for whom paying twice for the same test can be prohibitive.

- Better protection for EU innovation and creative works
CETA will create a more level playing field between Canada and the EU on intellectual property rights. For example, it will improve how Canada’s IPR system protects patents for EU pharmaceutical
products. It will also strengthen the protection of copyrights (alignment with EU rules on protection of technological measures and digital rights management as well as on the liability of internet service providers) and enforcement (namely by foreseeing the possibility of provisional measures and injunctions for intermediaries involved in infringing activities). Canada also agreed to strengthen its border measures against counterfeit trademark goods, pirated copyright goods and counterfeit geographical indication goods.

- Market advantage for producers of traditional European products
Many medium-sized and smaller businesses trading in agricultural products will benefit from Canada agreeing to protect 145 geographical indications for high-quality European products, such as Roquefort cheese, balsamic vinegar from Modena or Dutch Gouda cheese and many others.

- Commitment to Sustainable Development
In CETA,the EU and Canada affirm their commitment to sustainable development. Both agree that more trade and investment should further environmental protection and labour rights – and not be at
their expense. The EU and Canada are committed to CETA helping to ensure that economic growth, social development, and environmental protection are mutually supportive. CETA integrates the EU’s and Canada's obligations to international rules on workers’ rights and environmental protection, and gives a strong role to EU and Canadian civil society in participating in the implementation of the commitments in these areas in CETA. CETA also sets up a process for settling disputes, including government consultations and a panel of experts.

By significant contrast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51180282

"Without a level playing field on environment, labour, taxation and state aid, you cannot have the highest quality access to the world's largest single market," European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said in a speech at the London School of Economics.

She was talking about what kind of access the United Kingdom could have to the European single market after Brexit.
:
:
Part of a trade negotiation is working out how widespread level playing field provisions should be.

But the areas in which the EU is most insistent they must be maintained are:

- workers' rights
- environmental protection
- taxation
- state aid (or subsidies for business)

You will see that the EU is demanding considerably more from the UK by way of 'level playing field' provisions than they have agreed with Canada. Their reasoning is that we are on their doorstep - so we can't have a Canada style agreement, which is what the UK Guvmin wants.

In other words, the EU wants our cake to eat.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Andrew, Just so you know, IDS is of no importance to me.

On the specific point about 'level playing field', which is the term you used to rebut my argument, I'm not wrong. The term 'level playing field' as applied to CETA doesn't have the same meaning as what the EU wishes to apply to the UK. I quote the EU synopsis in full. Bold text is as per original. Coloured text is my highlight.

APPLICATION IN CETA https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...en/MEMO_16_445

[/SIZE]

By significant contrast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51180282

You will see that the EU is demanding considerably more from the UK by way of 'level playing field' provisions than they have agreed with Canada. Their reasoning is that we are on their doorstep - so we can't have a Canada style agreement, which is what the UK Guvmin wants.

In other words, the EU wants our cake to eat.

The EU set out at the start of the negotiations what was required of the UK if it wanted a certain level of access so it's four years too late for people to start whingeing that these do not match the dreams they were sold by Vote Leave and Leave EU. We all need to move on and accept the new reality.

The deal with Canada is more than just intellectual property rights, as my extract demonstrates and I think you accept this now so our views are now not so far apart. It also shows that you and I agree that the UK would need to build on the enhanced playing field with firmer support due to the UK's EU proximity and size. That's all part of the gravity of trade which I have tried to explain to people but never seems to sink in before they start talking up Mexico, India etc.

[Carth]

I can't remember being sold any dreams

I do remember some EU people trying to sell me some though

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

I can't remember being sold any dreams

I do remember some EU people trying to sell me some though

I'd get your memory checked then... there was dream selling from both camps

[Carth]

I wasn't swayed by the offers, didn't buy any

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

I can't remember being sold any dreams

I do remember some EU people trying to sell me some though

All i remember was being told that vote leave didn't stand a chance of winning,someone got that wrong.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I'd get your memory checked then... there was dream selling from both camps

Agreed although looking at the plans for Kent, Project Reality is resembling Project Fear a little too closely for my liking!

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed although looking at the plans for Kent, Project Reality is resembling Project Fear a little too closely for my liking!

oh . . what's happening in Kent then . . .. more migrants?

Originally Posted by Carth

oh . . what's happening in Kent then . . .. more migrants?

Government buys Ashford 'Brexit lorry park' site

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53427262

A 27-acre site in Kent which opponents fear could be used for a post-Brexit "lorry park" has been bought by the government.

In a letter to residents living near the site off the M20 in Ashford, the Department for Transport (DfT) said it was planning "two primary uses".

Transport Minister Rachel Maclean said the site could be used as a border control post or temporary lorry park.

Ashford MP Damian Green said the site was in the wrong place.

In her letter to residents, Ms Maclean wrote: "Government departments envisage using it as a permanent site for facilities related to future border processes.

"The site may also be used as a contingency lorry holding area for the particular, foreseeable risk of significant disruption at the end of the transition period."

Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove previously said it was not the intention to create a massive concrete lorry park.

Hope this helps...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

oh . . what's happening in Kent then . . .. more migrants?

The Farage Garage with lots of lorries parked up with enhanced access to people smugglers.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The EU set out at the start of the negotiations what was required of the UK if it wanted a certain level of access so it's four years too late for people to start whingeing that these do not match the dreams they were sold by Vote Leave and Leave EU. We all need to move on and accept the new reality.

The deal with Canada is more than just intellectual property rights, as my extract demonstrates and I think you accept this now so our views are now not so far apart. It also shows that you and I agree that the UK would need to build on the enhanced playing field with firmer support due to the UK's EU proximity and size. That's all part of the gravity of trade which I have tried to explain to people but never seems to sink in before they start talking up Mexico, India etc.

on your first paragraph, you’ve sort of nailed it. “The EU set out ....”. In other words their terms, cake and all. That’s my point.

On your 2nd paragraph, I believe their proximity argument to be spurious grounds for tight level playing field. My perception is that they want to punish us.

Our disagreement is fundamental on principle except, I hope, that the Canadian model is fine.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Government buys Ashford 'Brexit lorry park' site

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53427262

Hope this helps...

Bit of a waste isn't it? Considering many think we'll have no trade anyway

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

Bit of a waste isn't it? Considering many think we'll have no trade anyway

It's just somewhere for the four horsemen of the apocalypse to rest their horses

Originally Posted by Carth

Bit of a waste isn't it? Considering many think we'll have no trade anyway

No one’s ever said that - they’ve said it will more expensive and involve more red tape and delays...

You’re doing a "Donald" - saying "many think" or "many say" without providing any evidence of who the many are or what they actually said...

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

It's just somewhere for the four horsemen of the apocalypse to rest their horses

Farage, Cummings, Gove, and Banks?

Seems legit...

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

No one’s ever said that - they’ve said it will more expensive and involve more red tape and delays...

You’re doing a "Donald" - saying "many think" or "many say" without providing any evidence of who the many are or what they actually said...

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Farage, Cummings, Gove, and Banks?

Seems legit...

Yea but Donald got the worlds top job on the back of it