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The state benefits system mega-thread.
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Old 17-01-2020, 18:25   #2596
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Everyone should have the right to seek help with DWP (or any other) issues from their elected representatives without having to explain themselves:

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https://www.thecanary.co/exclusive/2...h-the-snp/amp/
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Old 17-01-2020, 18:46   #2597
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
They are the equivalent of local councillors. Because of the voting system used, some MSPs don't really have constituents.

Regardless their support shouldn't be conditional.

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AN SNP MSP has been branded a “disgrace” after saying he would not speak up for any constituent who wanted to keep Scotland in the Union.
John Mason also said he would refuse to speak up for the people in his Glasgow Shettleston seat who backed lower taxes or Orange marches.
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Old 17-01-2020, 21:53   #2598
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Thus thoroughly failing to grasp the concept of being elected to serve your entire constituency, not just the ones who voted for you. But then this is the very bitter sectarianism we all know drives the SNP, no matter how much they deny it.
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Old 30-01-2020, 18:49   #2599
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Another victim for the DWP to add to their tally..

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y_to_clipboard
Quote:
Disabled man starved to death after DWP stopped his benefits

The family of Errol Graham, the vulnerable 57-year old grandfather who died of starvation months after having his welfare benefits stopped, has demanded the government act urgently to minimise the chances of such tragedies happening again.

The case of Graham, who had a long history of mental illness and weighed just four and a half stone (28.8kg) when he was found dead at his home in Nottingham, has focused attention on how the social security system cares for vulnerable claimants.

A coroner subsequently concluded that the removal of his benefits for failing to attend a fit-for-work test was a “devastating stressor” that had significantly affected his mental health and may have contributed to his death.
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Old 30-01-2020, 18:52   #2600
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Another victim for the DWP to add to their tally..

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y_to_clipboard
Where the hell was his family while he starved to death?
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Old 30-01-2020, 20:03   #2601
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Where the hell was his family while he starved to death?
He was estranged from his family. Also, we don't have a 'liable relative' rule with regards to benefits in this country. Since the 1940's it has been deemed to be the job of the state to support those in need, but that responsibility has been steadily eroded by stealth over the years (especially since 2010).
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Old 30-01-2020, 20:41   #2602
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
He was estranged from his family. Also, we don't have a 'liable relative' rule with regards to benefits in this country. Since the 1940's it has been deemed to be the job of the state to support those in need, but that responsibility has been steadily eroded by stealth over the years (especially since 2010).
So before 2010, claimants were able to not attend assessments and still get benefits?
Quote:
The inquest heard it was standard DWP procedure to stop the benefits of a claimant marked on the system as vulnerable after two failed safeguarding visits. It made two visits on 16 and 17 October. Graham’s ESA payment due on the 17th was stopped on the same day.
Would those visits have taken place before 2010? In other words it would've been more likely to have occurred under the rules before 2010.


Quote:
The department said Mr Graham had not seen his GP since 2013, and there was no recent ESA questionnaire explaining his level of impairment.
So the DWP had nothing else to go on. What else were they expected to do?

Last edited by nomadking; 30-01-2020 at 20:45.
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Old 30-01-2020, 20:57   #2603
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So before 2010, claimants were able to not attend assessments and still get benefits?
Would those visits have taken place before 2010? In other words it would've been more likely to have occurred under the rules before 2010.


So the DWP had nothing else to go on. What else were they expected to do?
Well they've launched an investigation into themselves so clearly even they think they have a case to answer/cover up.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...staff-21384055
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Old 30-01-2020, 21:28   #2604
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Well they've launched an investigation into themselves so clearly even they think they have a case to answer/cover up.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...staff-21384055
So if somebody doesn't respond to anything, they should simply keep getting benefits? AFAIK the safeguarding visits are post-2010. So prior to that, those precautions wouldn't have happened. Which is the attempt at the better system? Pre-2010 or post-2010?
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Old 30-01-2020, 21:36   #2605
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So if somebody doesn't respond to anything, they should simply keep getting benefits? AFAIK the safeguarding visits are post-2010. So prior to that, those precautions wouldn't have happened. Which is the attempt at the better system? Pre-2010 or post-2010?
They often find poor unfortunate people with mental health issues have starved to death round here, often but not always with cupboards full of food. It was so bad our borough was merged with another to make the figures look better. Used to be the case they'd be looked after in an institution but they got closed to save money...
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Old 01-02-2020, 18:27   #2606
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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They often find poor unfortunate people with mental health issues have starved to death round here, often but not always with cupboards full of food. It was so bad our borough was merged with another to make the figures look better. Used to be the case they'd be looked after in an institution but they got closed to save money...
Oh yes, I well remember Thatchers 'Care in the community' idea. Despite all the spin about wanting to help those who had been institutionalised by closing down mental institutions, in practice it often meant shoving former residents into a bedsit on benefits. Then, when they couldn't cope and didn't complete forms, attend appointments etc it was left to the police, NHS staff, the DWP etc to sort out. These days, of course, the DWP respond by simply cutting off their income hence all these deaths from starvation or suicide.

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So if somebody doesn't respond to anything, they should simply keep getting benefits? AFAIK the safeguarding visits are post-2010. So prior to that, those precautions wouldn't have happened. Which is the attempt at the better system? Pre-2010 or post-2010?
It doesn't have to be binary. The current DWP way of working is zero tolerance to any failure, with no allowances for flexibility or common sense or humanity. They just reduce, suspend or close a live claim.

Of course claimants have to participate in the requirements of the system if they are able to. If they don't engage the DWP simply compounds matters by cutting off their income instead of looking into why they have failed to respond etc.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

[QUOTE=nomadking;36023993]So before 2010, claimants were able to not attend assessments and still get benefits?
Would those visits have taken place before 2010? In other words it would've been more likely to have occurred under the rules before 2010.


So the DWP had nothing else to go on. What else were they expected to do?/QUOTE]

As previously explained, before Camerons 'Stricter benefits regime' mantra (and cuts to staffing levels), we used common sense and flexibility to look into why the claimant wasn't engaging with the department. Sometimes it's possible to bypass a mentally ill or disabled customer completely and obtain the information elsewhere without a claim form.

This is the true meaning of 'social security'.

These days a robotic approach is deployed, which you appear to endorse with your inhumane comments that are devoid of any form of empathy whatsoever.

As the National Lottery strapline says 'It could be YOU'.

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 01-02-2020 at 18:34.
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Old 01-02-2020, 20:20   #2607
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

[QUOTE=RichardCoulter;36024100]Oh yes, I well remember Thatchers 'Care in the community' idea. Despite all the spin about wanting to help those who had been institutionalised by closing down mental institutions, in practice it often meant shoving former residents into a bedsit on benefits. Then, when they couldn't cope and didn't complete forms, attend appointments etc it was left to the police, NHS staff, the DWP etc to sort out. These days, of course, the DWP respond by simply cutting off their income hence all these deaths from starvation or suicide.

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------



It doesn't have to be binary. The current DWP way of working is zero tolerance to any failure, with no allowances for flexibility or common sense or humanity. They just reduce, suspend or close a live claim.

Of course claimants have to participate in the requirements of the system if they are able to. If they don't engage the DWP simply compounds matters by cutting off their income instead of looking into why they have failed to respond etc.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So before 2010, claimants were able to not attend assessments and still get benefits?
Would those visits have taken place before 2010? In other words it would've been more likely to have occurred under the rules before 2010.


So the DWP had nothing else to go on. What else were they expected to do?/QUOTE]

As previously explained, before Camerons 'Stricter benefits regime' mantra (and cuts to staffing levels), we used common sense and flexibility to look into why the claimant wasn't engaging with the department. Sometimes it's possible to bypass a mentally ill or disabled customer completely and obtain the information elsewhere without a claim form.

This is the true meaning of 'social security'.

These days a robotic approach is deployed, which you appear to endorse with your inhumane comments that are devoid of any form of empathy whatsoever.

As the National Lottery strapline says 'It could be YOU'.
As I pointed out, the safeguarding visits weren't there at all before Cameron. So what happened before then? Where were there supposed to get the info from? He hadn't seen his GP in years. Wouldn't have been the first case of somebody claiming something like agoraphobia, but mysteriously able to travel the world or whatever.

3 Examples
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3


Quote:
New government figures provide further proof that disabled people are being unfairly denied out-of-work disability benefits because of a controversial new assessment, say campaigners.
Same article

Quote:
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) figures show the number of people found “fit for work” after taking the work capability assessment (WCA) between October 2008 and November 2009.
Of those who completed the assessment, two thirds (66 per cent) were found fit for work and ineligible for employment and support allowance – which replaced incapacity benefit (IB) for new claimants in October 2008.

Quote:
The coroner last June said there were "missed opportunities" to help Mr Graham.
She wrote: "The safety net that should surround vulnerable people like Errol in our society had holes within it.
"Errol needed the GP to try harder to see him, certainly from 2015 onwards.
Quote:
"If anyone had known he was struggling, help could have been provided. We do not know why he did not seek it."
So nobody knew anything.



Quote:
Mr Graham's daughter-in-law told the Mirror: "He had always plodded along as long as he got the financial support needed.
He obviously was able to deal with everything and everyone to get the benefits in the first place, so how was this that different?


Why should non-compliance and absence of info be a passport for benefits?
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Old 15-02-2020, 17:33   #2608
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

As if to demonstrate how shoddy the system is I recently helped someone with a PIP application. Had been on DLA before being assessed.

Points but no money with a copy/paste decision.
Mandatory reconsideration. Same as first decision.
Appealed. No new information provided. Highest rate of both components from DWP appeal writer.
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Old 15-02-2020, 17:48   #2609
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
As if to demonstrate how shoddy the system is I recently helped someone with a PIP application. Had been on DLA before being assessed.

Points but no money with a copy/paste decision.
Mandatory reconsideration. Same as first decision.
Appealed. No new information provided. Highest rate of both components from DWP appeal writer.
If they did not get so many decisions wrong in the first place they would save the taxpayer a awful lot of money.
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Old 23-02-2020, 21:41   #2610
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Re: Free recording equipment to stop assessors lying etc:

https://www.thecanary.co/feature/202...mpression=true

Eg https://welfareweekly.com/disabled-g...-newsletter_37

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 23-02-2020 at 21:47.
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