Hamas Israel War

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

That's the problem, the fact these things happen is what leads directly to this and Jerusalem has been in my timeline for weeks, starting with the assaults on people at the mosque, then those extremist Jews spitting at Christians, almost as if there was something brewing with hindsight, lots of conspiracies on there now about Russian involvement and the Taliban asking for passage to join the fight through Syria



Well well, look whose crawled out the woodwork just in time, it's the zionists number one defender, so much so you are Mark Regev and I'm claiming a fiver



She knows you well Pierre

Did I say anything that is untrue? I did check about the attack you referred to but didn't specify. Your implication was somehow it was linked to the attack by Hamas.
Palestinians barricaded themselves in the mosque,and blocked access for others.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

As Hezbollah won the previous war.

Arabs ain't humans. Flatten them. Shame on you. Despicable person.

The residents of Gaza were all out on the streets celebrating the murder of innocent men women and children.

Terrorists parading the body of a young female murdered German tourist in the back of a truck. Half naked, so probably been raped too.

OAPs gunned down at a bus stop.

The list of atrocities is long.


But, yeah, I’m despicable.

When Gaza is destroyed, and the Palestinians are surrounded by rubble of course Israel will then be accused of being the bad actor.

[Mr K]

Bad guys on both sides. But you've to ask who has invaded who, and occupying the other's territory. Why Western reporting and Govts are so biased to one side, who aren't exactly angels themselves. Any criticism of Israel isn't antisemitic, whatever the wrongs of the past doesn't give them a free ticket to do whatever. Its situations like this that causes terrorism to thrive.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Bad guys on both sides. But you've to ask who has invaded who, and occupying the other's territory. Why Western reporting and Govts are so biased to one side, who aren't exactly angels themselves. Any criticism of Israel isn't antisemitic, whatever the wrongs of the past doesn't give them a free ticket to do whatever. Its situations like this that causes terrorism to thrive.

While we are sat in a nation that essentially has invaded and kept control over many countries over the years and still keep hold of one of them pretty close by we can hardly hold judgement on a country such as Israel can we

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Bad guys on both sides. But you've to ask who has invaded who, and occupying the other's territory. Why Western reporting and Govts are so biased to one side, who aren't exactly angels themselves. Any criticism of Israel isn't antisemitic, whatever the wrongs of the past doesn't give them a free ticket to do whatever. Its situations like this that causes terrorism to thrive.

That is utter bollocks and the language of a terrorist sympathiser.

Twitter X, is awash with videos that make you sick to your stomach, such as a girl being executed in front of her parents, brother and sister.

I don’t recall Israel doing that.

But they’ll be dropping a lot of ordnance on Gaza over the next weeks, and rightly so.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Bad guys on both sides. But you've to ask who has invaded who, and occupying the other's territory. Why Western reporting and Govts are so biased to one side, who aren't exactly angels themselves. Any criticism of Israel isn't antisemitic, whatever the wrongs of the past doesn't give them a free ticket to do whatever. Its situations like this that causes terrorism to thrive.

No - but it heads that way when certain members start using the word "Zionist" in the context of this thread.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

But they’ll be dropping a lot of ordnance on Gaza over the next weeks, and rightly so.

Including white phosphorus in civilian areas apparently

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You and Corbyn make a fine pair (of ....).



---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ----------





No - but it heads that way when certain members start using the word "Zionist" in the context of this thread.

Let me guess you're going to call my step father and closest thing I had to a dad a self loathing Jew next because he's as disgusted by Israels behaviour over the years as I am and his now deceased mother who was made stateless by the nazis, bet you'd have supported the daily mail in their campaign to stop Jewish people fleeing hitler coming here

[jfman]

I'm sure if/when Israel raze Gaza to the ground everyone will be out with their Palestinian flags, donating money and weapons and pushing Palestine to conscript every man of fighting age to push to fight for every inch of their own territory (and beyond, it'll be the only way they can truly be safe after all).

Or at least that's where my flowchart has got me, but maybe I'm not following it correctly.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Including white phosphorus in civilian areas apparently




Let me guess you're going to call my step father and closest thing I had to a dad a self loathing Jew next because he's as disgusted by Israels behaviour over the years as I am and his now deceased mother who was made stateless by the nazis, bet you'd have supported the daily mail in their campaign to stop Jewish people fleeing hitler coming here

You introduced the term “Zionist” which points to you actual beliefs, despite the step-family history you provided.

Your earlier statements are self evident. Why don’t you just condemn the Hamas assault rather than make Israel out to be baddies in this context?

Enough of the digs at each other.
If it keeps up, some will be taking a rest from this topic.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You introduced the term “Zionist” which points to you actual beliefs, despite the step-family history you provided.

Your earlier statements are self evident. Why don’t you just condemn the Hamas assault rather than make Israel out to be baddies in this context?

Why does anyone with an ounce of humanity in them need to condemn such a heinous act, it goes without saying and I doubt there is a person on this forum who supports what's happened but here you are going all woke demanding condemnation.

Oh yes it points exactly to my beliefs in that I don't like extremists of any brand and the term has transformed from a perfectly reasonable and laudable ambition of 100+ years ago into what we see today

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Why does anyone with an ounce of humanity in them need to condemn such a heinous act, it goes without saying and I doubt there is a person on this forum who supports what's happened but here you are going all woke demanding condemnation.

Oh yes it points exactly to my beliefs in that I don't like extremists of any brand and the term has transformed from a perfectly reasonable and laudable ambition of 100+ years ago into what we see today

What we see today is the consequence of incompatible cultures fighting over their own perceived justices.

1/
Israel was awarded its territory by UN resolution in 1948. Immediately, that territory was invaded by Israel's Arab neighbours - an act of war. Israel successfully defended that aggression and some Arab families lost their homes (still a bone of contention fuelling the fire).

AT that time, Jordan administered the West Bank and annexed it in 1950. Jordan controlled East Jerusalem and there was peace until 1956 when Israel's neighbours invaded again. Israel came out on top that time too.

Btw, Gaza was administered at the time by Egypt, the terrorist group.

2/
The Fatah terrorist group then got busy against Israel and in 1967,the Arab neighbours had another go at Israel. Fata later transformed into a political party. In Gaza, Hamas was formed as a militant, armed group.

This time, Israel took the West Bank and Gaza into occupation which is the current status save that the West Bank is officially the Palestinian Territory. (Historian will recall that the 1948 UN declaration reserved Palestine to become an Arab state). As part of of the goings on, East Jerusalem was taken by Israel and eventually Annexed.

3/
It is well known that with the exception of Lebanon (Hezbolllah influenced) and Syria, Israel's neighbours took up diplomatic relations with Israel. In those days, Israel was not governed by the right wing hard liners we see in power today. Under those accords, Palestine formed the Palestinian Authority and it appeared for a while that a transition to statehood was on the cards.

Then Likud came to power and the orthodox settlers made incursions into Palestine which set the cat among the pigeons.

In Gaza, Hamas came under Iran's influence - the arch enemy of Israel. The suicide bombing shows that extreme Islamist culture stretches to such insane acts. That's what we're seeing today because the Hamas fighters know they'll die. What's worse, they know their families will suffer. The culture difference is evident.

4/
Hamas (as in Iran) have never let up on Israel. The fact that the Israeli Ultras share power with the right-wing Likud doesn't help either. The Ultra's ideology and doctrine is unhealthily anti-Islam. Iran stokes this up and only Gazan and Israeli blood is shed.

5/
You might ask why Israel didn't give the West Bank back to \\\\\\jordan when diplomatic relations were taken up. The answer is that Jordan didn't want it any more than Egypt didn't want Gaza given back to them.

The history lesson is worth knowing. If Israel gets back to some political sense and elects a centrist government (I fear this wont happen for birth rate reasons), then a Palestinian state could emerge, although Gaza and its separation from the West Bank poses a challenge.

Hamas stands fully condemned.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Including white phosphorus in civilian areas apparently

Been announced has it? I assume you have a link, I’ll wait.

Unless you’re going to refer to something that was incorrectly reported years ago. WP were used in 2009 to produce instant smoke and noxious fumes to flush out personnel and combatants. They are not a primary incendiary device.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What we see today is the consequence of incompatible cultures fighting over their own perceived justices.

1/
Israel was awarded its territory by UN resolution in 1948. Immediately, that territory was invaded by Israel's Arab neighbours - an act of war. Israel successfully defended that aggression and some Arab families lost their homes (still a bone of contention fuelling the fire).

AT that time, Jordan administered the West Bank and annexed it in 1950. Jordan controlled East Jerusalem and there was peace until 1956 when Israel's neighbours invaded again. Israel came out on top that time too.

Btw, Gaza was administered at the time by Egypt, the terrorist group.

2/
The Fatah terrorist group then got busy against Israel and in 1967,the Arab neighbours had another go at Israel. Fata later transformed into a political party. In Gaza, Hamas was formed as a militant, armed group.

This time, Israel took the West Bank and Gaza into occupation which is the current status save that the West Bank is officially the Palestinian Territory. (Historian will recall that the 1948 UN declaration reserved Palestine to become an Arab state). As part of of the goings on, East Jerusalem was taken by Israel and eventually Annexed.

3/
It is well known that with the exception of Lebanon (Hezbolllah influenced) and Syria, Israel's neighbours took up diplomatic relations with Israel. In those days, Israel was not governed by the right wing hard liners we see in power today. Under those accords, Palestine formed the Palestinian Authority and it appeared for a while that a transition to statehood was on the cards.

Then Likud came to power and the orthodox settlers made incursions into Palestine which set the cat among the pigeons.

In Gaza, Hamas came under Iran's influence - the arch enemy of Israel. The suicide bombing shows that extreme Islamist culture stretches to such insane acts. That's what we're seeing today because the Hamas fighters know they'll die. What's worse, they know their families will suffer. The culture difference is evident.

4/
Hamas (as in Iran) have never let up on Israel. The fact that the Israeli Ultras share power with the right-wing Likud doesn't help either. The Ultra's ideology and doctrine is unhealthily anti-Islam. Iran stokes this up and only Gazan and Israeli blood is shed.

5/
You might ask why Israel didn't give the West Bank back to \\\\\\jordan when diplomatic relations were taken up. The answer is that Jordan didn't want it any more than Egypt didn't want Gaza given back to them.

The history lesson is worth knowing. If Israel gets back to some political sense and elects a centrist government (I fear this wont happen for birth rate reasons), then a Palestinian state could emerge, although Gaza and its separation from the West Bank poses a challenge.

Hamas stands fully condemned.

Also Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005.

They removed everything, even their dead.

There could have been a way forward, but Hamas took over two years later. Hamas are a terrorist organisation no different than ISIS or the Taliban. Israel had no choice but to defend themselves against Hamas and introduce restrictions.

If Hamas had not gained control of Gaza, things could have been very different.

It’s like the U.K. giving the people of Co. Tyrone independence, pulling out all the loyalists and anything else British. Only for the IRA to take control and continue to fire rockets and set bombs etc.

Ham

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What we see today is the consequence of incompatible cultures fighting over their own perceived justices.

Thus far you’re correct. It is an intractable problem and, sad to say, it is never going to have a political resolution - not in the lifetime of anyone living today. The reasons for that are complex and nuanced and routinely misunderstood, especially by those who think that telling the history from 1948 onwards is an adequate approach to it. It really, really isn’t - the seeds of 1948’s conflict were already decades old by that point.

Hamas stands fully condemned.

It does. Today it stands condemned for deploying medieval tactics in its pursuit of statehood (and it is a cold irony that as a state it would stand condemned in international law for behaviour half as egregious as this).

In the longer run, it may yet stand condemned in the eyes of moderate Palestinians, once they realise their dreams of statehood are further away than ever. The re-occupation of Gaza by Israel is now inevitable. Its retaliation against Hamas is likely to be wide-ranging. Gaza will be unrecognisable 18 months from now. I wouldn’t even put money on it continuing to exist at all in the long run.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

Gaza will be unrecognisable 18 months from now. I wouldn’t even put money on it continuing to exist at all in the long run.

It’s inevitable. Israel left Gaza, they had a real chance of statehood. Israel is not likely to ever do that again this century.

Gaza will be taken over by Israel, and it will be a bloody conflict.