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Old 23-12-2018, 20:53   #5596
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
There is nothing silly about important UK policies being ignored and put on the back burner because of Brexit.

l am more interested in these important policies and how we can improve things in these important areas for the people of this country rather then a internecine civil war in both HMG and the opposition which is effectively putting most of these important policies on the back burner until this Brexit shambles is sorted out which might be never..
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Old 23-12-2018, 20:55   #5597
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Re: Brexit

Well... someone brought blue passports into the conversation which can only be for nostalgia. Even though Croatia use blue and are in the EU.
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Old 23-12-2018, 21:13   #5598
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
By the same token - whenever we see a scare story from the Project fear department, they need to back up their "opinion".

Works both ways.
Funny that isn’t it, a recent example on here, just last night, is proof that is sometimes difficult to achieve !
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Old 23-12-2018, 21:58   #5599
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Not much different than most of the stuff linked to by the remain camp then, just somebodies opinion . .
Every one has an opinion, doesn't make them right. It's a strange quirk occurring at the moment that hauliers who go to Switzerland and experience delays at the border are treated the same as some berk who has never left Coventry and given the same amount of air time on telly to espouse their views.

Someone else's opinion that's been ignored is Patrick Minford who said manufacturing would largely be eliminated post brexit, wonder who voted for that? I do kind of get the Minford ignoring though to be fair, he has been wrong before after all, let's hope he is again for the sake of them oop north
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Old 23-12-2018, 23:17   #5600
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Someone else's opinion that's been ignored is Patrick Minford who said manufacturing would largely be eliminated post brexit, wonder who voted for that? I do kind of get the Minford ignoring though to be fair, he has been wrong before after all, let's hope he is again for the sake of them oop north
Now 75, Patrick Minford tends to be heard through Economists for Free Trade (formerly Economists for Brexit).
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Old 23-12-2018, 23:19   #5601
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Now 75, Patrick Minford tends to be heard through Economists for Free Trade (formerly Economists for Brexit).
That's him, smug Jacob's pal
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Old 24-12-2018, 02:39   #5602
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Funny that isn’t it, a recent example on here, just last night, is proof that is sometimes difficult to achieve !
Post 5565 is a prime example of why it's hard to achieve and is the reason I didn't want to take part in that debate. I was making one point and that was all.
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Old 24-12-2018, 02:49   #5603
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mythica View Post
Post 5565 is a prime example of why it's hard to achieve and is the reason I didn't want to take part in that debate. I was making one point and that was all.
Indeed.

Dismissing possibilities that are “could” out of hand on that basis ignores one important element which is “likelihood”. If 100 things are in a list of bad things that could reasonably happen it’d take a stroke of luck for none to happen.

Similarly we “could” strike excellent trade deals outside the EU with no evidence we will.

It’s obvious the leave campaign has one last stand which is to deny a public vote on the basis it’s anti-democratic and fight for the same outcome. Engaging in the merits of leaving or remaining is a recipe for defeat.
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Old 24-12-2018, 09:51   #5604
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Indeed.

Dismissing possibilities that are “could” out of hand on that basis ignores one important element which is “likelihood”. If 100 things are in a list of bad things that could reasonably happen it’d take a stroke of luck for none to happen.

Similarly we “could” strike excellent trade deals outside the EU with no evidence we will.

It’s obvious the leave campaign has one last stand which is to deny a public vote on the basis it’s anti-democratic and fight for the same outcome. Engaging in the merits of leaving or remaining is a recipe for defeat.
The usual ploy to use democracy to usurp democracy. We had a Referendum in 2016 and the government of the day committed to implement the result. It was even in their pamphlet:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

"This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide."

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Old 24-12-2018, 11:38   #5605
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It’s obvious the leave campaign has one last stand which is to deny a public vote on the basis it’s anti-democratic

One last stand? . . you make it sound like a 1956 western

It's obvious that Leave won the referendum, and just as obvious that Remain are trying every trick in the book to overturn the result.
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Old 24-12-2018, 11:39   #5606
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
The usual ploy to use democracy to usurp democracy. We had a Referendum in 2016 and the government of the day committed to implement the result. It was even in their pamphlet:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

"This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide."

This is the other trick: to imply that a further democratic vote is undemocratic. Which is impossible. It’s by definition an exercise in democracy.

David Cameron’s Government ceased to exist when he resigned. The Conservative Party further rolled the dice and lost out. They shouldn’t make promises they can’t keep, I agree, but it’s foolish to bind ourselves to that document unnecessarily on that basis.
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Old 24-12-2018, 12:37   #5607
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
The usual ploy to use democracy to usurp democracy. We had a Referendum in 2016 and the government of the day committed to implement the result. It was even in their pamphlet:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

"This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide."

Do we upsurp democracy every time we have a general election ? Soon be 2019, 3 years since the Brexit vote, the electorate and opinions change, they are probably a lot more informed now than they were during the campaign of lies.

Hate and division seems to be the bright new future, I despair at the way the country is going, and not just because of Brexit. Poverty is increasing as are the number of homeless dying. Austerity and selfish attitude of many has taken its toll. Brexit is going to make things worse I'm afraid with an increasing rich/poor divide. Areas of the country that benefitted from EU help ie. most outside the SE, will be hit hard. Boris and Jacob will be ok though...

Anyway, let's have a Brexit armistice for Xmas ! Peace and goodwill to all men and all that cobblers ! I'm off for a walk in the sunshine to desperately try and think of happy things
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Old 24-12-2018, 12:45   #5608
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Re: Brexit

Happy Christmas one and all on the Brexit thread. I may not have agreed with everything everyone said but it wouldn't be a debate otherwise!
Thanks to the moderators for their hard work in keeping us all in check and here's to a good break and interesting 2019.
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Old 24-12-2018, 12:54   #5609
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
This is the other trick: to imply that a further democratic vote is undemocratic. Which is impossible. It’s by definition an exercise in democracy.

David Cameron’s Government ceased to exist when he resigned. The Conservative Party further rolled the dice and lost out. They shouldn’t make promises they can’t keep, I agree, but it’s foolish to bind ourselves to that document unnecessarily on that basis.
Another Remain contrivance. It's the public who voted to leave the EU. That binding vote has to be delivered by May's continuity government.

Btw, no vote is undemocratic; it's the use of democracy to usurp democracy that's undemocratic.

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Old 24-12-2018, 12:58   #5610
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Another Remain contrivance. It's the public who voted to leave the EU. That binding vote has to be delivered by May's continuity government.

Btw, no vote is undemocratic; it's the use of democracy to usurp democracy that's undemocratic.

It wasn’t binding. It was unconstitutional, and unfortunate, for Cameron to give that impression. No matter how many people believed it has no legal effect.

Democracy can never usurp democracy in our Parliamentary system. It’s impossible for a second vote to be unlawful if this Parliament enables it.
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