Brexit (Old)

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Then you're arguing for argument's sake - to be difficult. Not very useful to the debate.

No, I'm arguing because I can't stand people who won't see the other side. What we know now is totally different to what we knew then and that's what some people voted on. It's not fair if their vote was based on lies and that goes for either side.

[ianch99]

This may have been already posted, not sure:

Labour and Tory MPs strengthen efforts to prevent no-deal Brexit

Senior Labour and Conservative MPs are to ramp up efforts to block any possibility of a no-deal Brexit ahead of the vote on Theresa May’s deal, with a plan to mandate the prime minister to extend or cancel article 50 if the prospect of crashing out looms.

Efforts were kickstarted on Thursday by a cross-party group of prominent MPs led by Yvette Cooper, who tabled a new amendment to the finance bill that would only allow a no-deal exit if MPs voted to proceed with one.

Cooper, the chair of the home affairs select committee, said the risks to the UK’s economy and security were “far too high and it would be irresponsible to allow it to happen”.

The MP said she believed there was no majority in parliament for a no-deal Brexit. “But if the government won’t rule it out, then parliament needs to find opportunities to stop the country reaching the cliff edge by accident – starting with the finance bill in the first week back, then looking at every other legislative opportunity too,” she said.

The amendment has been signed by a number of influential Labour and Tory MPs and is expected to be voted on when the House of Commons returns from the Christmas recess.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I guess he might when you do

The "Project Fear" crap is a broken record and should be consigned to the playground where it belongs. Debate the reality that faces us today. Hiding behind childish name calling betrays a lack of imagination.

Hey, when Vladimir Putin, who is the last person on this earth to preach democracy, tells us to "respect" the referendum result then we have all we need to know.

Why would you pray in aid Putin to justify that I'm not saying anything useful.

The Project Fear crap emerges whenever someone writes about what made voters choose Leave/Remain in the Referendum. It is as valid a point as any made about the crap put out by the Remain campaign.

You need to respect the Referendum result.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Like mp Anna Soubry mp for Broxtow

the people of broxtow voted 45.4% remain and 54.6% leave in the referendum
she has never accepted the result in fact she's gone out of her way to overturn it .

her pro Europe views are very well known indeed and she still won and if your complaining about that what about Kate Hoey very remain area but she is big brexiteer

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mythica

No, I'm arguing because I can't stand people who won't see the other side. What we know now is totally different to what we knew then and that's what some people voted on. It's not fair if their vote was based on lies and that goes for either side.

That's very one sided. Had Remain won, what is now happening in this debate wouldn't have happened. There would be nothing new to know that hadn't been put out by the Leave campaign (the correct bits).


I don't expect you to have read all my earlier posts. I was praised a couple of months ago by Mr. K (no less) for writing a well balanced piece on the pros and cons of Leave/Remain. If, for any reason, we do remain, I won't be up in arms - after all the EU has not harmed us economically. I will be up in arms if we don't maintain our derogations from "ever closer union" and the Euro. I've never had a problem with freedom of labour movement - just our guvmin's inability to deal with the consequences (housing, health and so on). I support Leave particularly because of the way the EU has behaved (like Varoufakis said it would) and also Macron's threat to keep the UK permanently in Backstop until we give him our fishing waters. I don't like German hegemony nor the EU's tolerance of their breach of law as regards GDP surplus limits. The EU is a bad egg.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Why would you pray in aid Putin to justify that I'm not saying anything useful.

I think it's called clutching at straws.

---------- Post added at 17:51 ---------- Previous post was at 17:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave42

her pro Europe views are very well known indeed and she still won and if your complaining about that what about Kate Hoey very remain area but she is big brexiteer

Would that be the same Anna Soubry who said originally....

..you can't vote for a Referendum & then renege on delivering the result because you don't like the result

https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/stat...07175725596672

???

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mythica

Wanting another referendum based on what we know now isn't defying democracy. What if leave voters want another referendum? You speak for yourself and not millions of others. There simply wasn't enough true information to have a true result from a referendum based on what we know now.

Yet another person trotting the same boring unoriginal argument.

There was plenty of information prior to the referendum, if you didn’t understand what you voted for then that’s your own problem.

What we know now is no different to what we knew before.

Tell me, what’s changed?

[Sephiroth]

I have long criticised the EU's anti-competitive Working Time Directive, which was rammed through by France under qualified majority Health & Safety banner. And now it's rearing its ugly head again.

CMS Law Now has reported that employees who receive e-mails and calls in the evenings / weekends and during holidays carry the risk that employees are "always online" in violation of working time regulations.

How stupid such unintended consequences are. We need to leave on a No Deal basis. They are terrified of that because we can institute policies, without reducing workers' rights, that make us more competitive.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by denphone

You were lucky as it was eat whatever was put on the table and if you did not like it then one would have to go without.

My granddad grew up like this, if you didn't eat it you had nothing, the next meal it was put out again.

Also he had porridge with water and salt.

[Mr K]

If this country doesn't get away from 'winners' and 'losers' and realise at the end of the day then we're all on the same side, then we're doomed. Having a divided country will be even more disastrous when we're standing alone in the World.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

If this country doesn't get away from 'winners' and 'losers' and realise at the end of the day then we're all on the same side, then we're doomed. Having a divided country will be even more disastrous when we're standing alone in the World.

On the same side ?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mr K

If this country doesn't get away from 'winners' and 'losers' and realise at the end of the day then we're all on the same side, then we're doomed. Having a divided country will be even more disastrous when we're standing alone in the World.

We are not and have never been on the same side.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Yet another person trotting the same boring unoriginal argument.

There was plenty of information prior to the referendum, if you didn’t understand what you voted for then that’s your own problem.

What we know now is no different to what we knew before.

Tell me, what’s changed?

Yes there was plenty of information, information that was half true or totally false along with the other information that was true. People had a vote based on that, it's not undemocratic to want a second referendum based on what we now know.

---------- Post added at 01:53 ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

If this country doesn't get away from 'winners' and 'losers' and realise at the end of the day then we're all on the same side, then we're doomed. Having a divided country will be even more disastrous when we're standing alone in the World.

My point totally which plenty of people don't seem to agree on. This is not a game, there is no winning or losing side, we are all in this together and we all want the best for the country we live in. We might disagree on the best way for that to happen but I just don't get those that are choosing to call those that want a second referendum to be eroding away democratic rights.

[Carth]

Everything in the modern world consists of lies and deceit, all choices are made knowing this . . no reason to treat one vote different from all the others we've had over the past 20 years or so.

I agree there's no 'winning or losing' in this, but people are turning it into that by complaining 'it isn't fair'

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That cuts both ways. Remain lost.

How can you be so sure that the Referendum was "a complete sham and makes a mockery of the democracy"? That insults the voters on both sides who knew what they were voting for. Remainers seem to think that the Leavers did not know what they were voting for; they have no proof for this. Nor have they assessed the number of Remainers who are disgusted with the EU's high handed behaviour and who could change their vote to Leave.

That is one of the bases on which the Referendum result must stand. Many of the Remainers on this thread are very bad losers.

No it doesn't, there is no ambiguity, two wrongs don't make a right, end of no matter what side you are on.

You know what I think of when I hear about someone winning, stock piling food, having the army on stand by and turning Kent into a lorry park, now that's winning.

If every one knew what they were voting for how come so much of it has come as a surprise, particularly to the people leading us, it coming as a shock that Dover is so important and our leaving deal being rubbish for not giving us any mps in the European parliament being two particular stand out moments from the shining wits running this fiasco.

And many of the leavers on this thread are fair weather, where were you when I was all but a lone voice here saying we should leave, I don't recall you boring us all with hegemony back then.

---------- Post added at 07:55 ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

We are not and have never been on the same side.

You'd better be very soon because we're all in the same boat